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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2009 23:57:37 GMT
I have been wondering what exactly constitutes a messer in the modern defenition. I know that it is supposed to have a tang rivetted to the handle rather than a peen, but aside from that, it seems rather abiguous. So what about the blade shape? Crossguard style? Pommels? Many seem to have a rather falchion reminiscent blade style, with a slight curve and clipped point. But in other pictures it would appear to have a blade much like any other sabre. What makes a messer a messer?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2009 0:05:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2009 2:18:15 GMT
As far as I know, all messer-type swords have single-edged, often curved blades. They may or may not have clip points. They always have crossguards, and also generally have a lug to further protect/stabilize the hand. I usually think of a "Grosses Messer" as the smaller, single-handed variant most commonly associated with the type, and I've always observed them with either a clip point and a broad blade or a spear point and a narrower blade. I believe that "Kriegsmesser" refers to the larger, hand-and-a-half or two handed variant. They may be with or without a clip point. Actually, both "Grosses Messer" and "Langes Messer" can refer to any type of messer, but "Kriegsmesser" seems to always refer to the larger hand-and-a-half type. This is all based entirely on my own observations, so I may very well have gotten something wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2009 4:03:43 GMT
I have to agree with mattofthemidlands, excellent explanation. Agrees 100% with everything I've learned about messers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2009 14:53:27 GMT
They're basically really long, large knives? That's what they look like to me.
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Aug 18, 2009 19:22:26 GMT
'Grosse Messer' translates to 'Big Knife', so yeah, Ebon, that's pretty much it! ;D -Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2009 13:09:29 GMT
whilst on the subject of messers...why are there not many reproduction examples of these? In particular practical models....something maybe Hanwei , Valiant Armory , etc could introduce into the market....just thinking. I know Albion has one in the works but with a large price tag.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2009 15:30:22 GMT
I was wondering the same thing, I would love to get a good single handed messer
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2009 8:28:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2009 23:43:46 GMT
The reason for the hefty price tag is that they're a pain in the ___ to make. In period they were rough and ready bits of hack-'em. Modern reproductions need to meet a certain level of market demand for finish work. Think of it as a custom knife, on a large scale.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2009 0:24:56 GMT
Those swords look very nice, chenessfan. Who is the sith?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2009 1:38:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2009 1:51:42 GMT
Hey Bryce, Well here's my semi informed two cents. I'd say the first picture you posted (And I re posted) is a representation of a grosse messer. The lower one is a Kriegs messer. There is a difference. The grosse messer being more knife like and the Kriegs messer being more saber like with a much longer blade, oftentimes with fullers like so................................ www.albion-swords.com/swords/albion/nextgen/knecht-mark-II-photos.htmNote how it retains a basic messer premise, but with a much slimmer blade to accommodate the length and the addition of double fullers. It still retains the scale grip and the hand guard as well as the cross. Hope this post helps man.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2009 2:22:30 GMT
the langes messer's used in this video are very nice...to me anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2009 7:33:42 GMT
Yeah, those are more like the ones in Johannes Lecküchner's giant book of messer killing.
The ones MEMAG uses are more like the ones in Wallerstein, except they're like fencing with sword shape bells.
M.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2009 15:44:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2009 15:22:40 GMT
Hey, I guess this might be a question better put to the training section of the forum, but where can I get those messers that look like a reversed Thorpe-point Falcion? And Where does one acquire the Lecküchner book in a usable (read, english and slightly dumbed down) format? I want.... Because of this
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2009 16:06:50 GMT
yes...this is another fine video these folks did sometime ago. Really like what they do..... I put a bug int he ear of our sword guildes' bladesmith about these types of messers......he says he could make them. I put a comment on the newest video asking the maker of the one's the Gladiatore group uses. here's a link to a translated part of the messer fechtbuch of Leckbuchner. www.schielhau.org/lebkommer.htmlreally like the Talhoffer buckler in the newest video too........
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2009 16:17:32 GMT
Perfect! That's awsome. If you get a response as to the maker of those very VERY pretty things, please share with the rest of us, yes?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2009 17:34:41 GMT
Those swords look very nice, chenessfan. Who is the sith? The smith is Arno Eckhart. In my opinion he makes some of the best if not the best swords out there. Unfortunately his prices are higher than Albion's. Still, one day.....
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