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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2009 14:55:03 GMT
Hi,Guys, I'm still very new when it comes to choosing a great quality sword,with the help of Paul here(he directed me to Cult of Athena,they import 2 my country) I got a site with two swords catching my interest.I know u guys are looking at the sub $300,but I don't know who else to ask 1.Hanwei Wind And Thunder Katana - $539-95 www.kultofathena.com/product~item~PC5001~name~Hanwei+Wind+And+Thunder+Katana.htm2.Hanwei Green Bamboo Snake Katana - Black Saya - $499.95 www.kultofathena.com/product~item~PC1658B~name~Hanwei+Green+Bamboo+Snake+Katana+-+Black+Saya.htmThe top one is folded swedish powder steel,but is a little lighter blade and the one at the bottom is a 1065 high carbon mono steel blade.Both blades are differentially clay tempered. So what my questions is,is the Bamboo snake katana also strong as the Wind and Thunder,as I've read that a wrong cut can bend the blade. To put it more straight is that I'm looking for a beautiful katana,but most important it must be functional as well,meaning will the bamboo snake's blade chip or break when it comes into contact with bone ,the wind and thunder katana as well. I favour the Bamboo snake katana,but worry that it will be inferior to the Wind and thunder katana. If you guys can help me with this,I would be very grateful as I intend to import this sword from US to South-Africa and this will be a one time deal and can't afford mistakes here. *Bows down respectfully to my senior sword guru's and wait 4 response* ;D And my thanks also go out to all the members who posted already so much useful info!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2009 19:06:53 GMT
Unless I am mistaken, the wind and thunder is NOT k120 powder steel. It is a heavy-weight carbon steel, unfolded, made for cutting.
The green bamboo is a limited addition production. it as "pattern weld" forged and does not say k120 power steel either.
If you are using this for cutting I suggest the wind and thunder.
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 13, 2009 19:11:56 GMT
I think the fellow simply misplaced the two, but yes, the GBS is folded and the W&T is not. The W&T is reputed as a solid, stout blade, "massive" has even been used to describe it, as well as "beast" but these are all relevant terms. Statistically (looking at size vs weight) yes, it is large, and heavy...but you may find you prefer that. The GBS is limited edition, and I was under the impression they had all sold...but if you have a chance to get one, I'd go for it. It's a fine sword by its own virtues, and I'd not worry much about cutting with it, it was made to do that, after all. Though if you really just want something to cut, cut, and cut with...the W&T should do, albeit it'll wear you out for a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2009 19:13:42 GMT
I would say, check out the reviews on both swords after you ask around, it'll give you a better idea of each sword's performance and bling points...that is, if they've already been reviewed. You might check myarmoury.com to see if its been reviewed over there as well.
Good luck, it seems like for cutting purposes, you might want the wind and thunder- but I guess it really depends on your skill level. You want to be good before you tackle anything that is going to be unforgiving of bad form.
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Post by sicheah on Aug 13, 2009 19:22:28 GMT
Maybe I misread, but the W&T is quite heavy, in fact almost a pound heavier than the bamboo snake katana. Both are quite different in terms of handling, size and weight If you really want to cut, cut, cut (and cut) pick W&T. If you cut primarily "light targets" and a bit of a collector yourself. Green bamboo snake might be for you. Both are not folded k120 swedish powder. Can't go wrong with any of $500 Hanwei katana. Edit: Ebon Paladin has a point, if you are a beginner cutter, you might want to consider a beater like Hanwei Raptor or Dynasty Forge Musha, both are available through kultofathena. They are more forgiving to bad cuts.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2009 19:37:13 GMT
Hi,Oogway, Thnx for your reply, I found out that the 'Wind and thunder' is 1065 high carbon steel not folded,but differentially hardened with natural hamon. The 'Bamboo snake' I got this info of the powder steel: www.swordsmanandarcher.com/japanesereproductions.htm And on swordforum.com found in the post there that they also mention swedish powder steel. forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=75693&highlight=green+bamboo+snakeSo all in all,I would like to know if the bamboo snake will qualify for strength and durability because of the steel used,I know the blade is lighter compared to the 'Wind and Thunder',does this mean that it can't handle cutting,will it bend,chip or break I will use the blade to practice,but where I live it will be a added bonus to self defense as our violent crime rate is quite high.Will it then break,chip and bend with the first bone it hits(he he). Your input is well appreciated!!!
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 13, 2009 19:45:07 GMT
The GBS will only bend, chip, or break if you cut the wrong thing or the wrong way. Practice would be key in preventing this; don't just tear it out of the box and start swinging at a tree, start with dry handling till you're comfortable and hearing the proper tachikaze then move up to paper or cardboard (which will scratch the finish and leave residue, if inked or if it has tape on it) then try a gallon milk jug filled with water until you can consistently take thin rings off of it, then try a smaller, thicker plastic bottle. Then tatami, and bamboo.
Swords are not advised as self-defense weapons for several reasons I won't get into again here. Suffice to say...there's not many good ways to argue self defense when the other guy is laying on both sides of your room...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2009 20:03:04 GMT
Well...you needn't sever a body to defend yourself, regardless of how much you might think you want to at the time...I'll tell you this, you'll want a sword if you're ever in a situation where you're getting mauled by 2 fully grown pit bulls like that young guy who died. It was in the news recently.
Or maybe a large bore pistol or a shotgun even.
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 13, 2009 20:16:57 GMT
I'd opt for the pistol at that point. Maybe a knife. The sword would be useless when the dog is already on top of you.
On that note, a good stick would keep the dog at bay, too. Nice thick one. Baseball bat would be great.
I don't know what SA's laws are like, though, so I'd have to check on them first. But a sword would not be my first line of self-defense.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2009 21:06:30 GMT
Thnx 4 all da input,I'm actually in law enforcement and have 2 handguns already and is really well trained with both of them They already changed to a new firearm act which makes it very difficult to defend yourself with a firearm-if you use it even though self defense,a case of murder or attempted murder will be opened and that means you will be arrested on the spot 9 out of 10 times and then you'll have to get a lawyer to post bail for you,sheeshz our prisons not good. Statistically we have a lot of criminals break in and entering your house night,armed with machete's which they then rape your wife while you watch and then rob and 8/10 kills you after. If you did retaliate with a similar weapon meaning a knife,the chances in our courts is more favorable-I know it sounds weird...,but that's the way the cookie crumbles here I have a 'wallhanger',it would be great if I had a beautiful Katana for collecting but also can be used if need be in a more serious manner without worrying that the katana would be seriously damaged All in all,you guys think the GBS is a strong,well made sword with good steel and can be used as practical too,it doesn't help if it's only a ornament..
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2009 21:36:38 GMT
Hi,Oogway, Thnx for your reply, I found out that the 'Wind and thunder' is 1065 high carbon steel not folded,but differentially hardened with natural hamon. The 'Bamboo snake' I got this info of the powder steel: www.swordsmanandarcher.com/japanesereproductions.htm And on swordforum.com found in the post there that they also mention swedish powder steel. forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=75693&highlight=green+bamboo+snakeSo all in all,I would like to know if the bamboo snake will qualify for strength and durability because of the steel used,I know the blade is lighter compared to the 'Wind and Thunder',does this mean that it can't handle cutting,will it bend,chip or break I will use the blade to practice,but where I live it will be a added bonus to self defense as our violent crime rate is quite high.Will it then break,chip and bend with the first bone it hits(he he). Your input is well appreciated!!! K120 is good enough for Bugei and all high end Hanwei's. The next question is the geometry. The blade is heavy because their is a lot of steel. A thin blade (with some exceptions) is a delicate blade. Even identical steel from the same manufactures will differ. The Hanwei tori is a "performance" geometry and made for mat cutting because of the shape, not the steel. I have seen shinto blades reported chipped because of the geometry. This holds true with the Bugei dragonfly vs. the samurai or bamboo models. Steel is only part of the solution.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2009 0:21:10 GMT
For a badass cutter, and if you're a big guy, I think the Wind and Thunder will do you justice. There's a small army of people here who swear by it for heavy cutting. Be warned, though, it is a big sword.
I think at $500 if you can get your hands on a Hanwei Swedish Powdered Steel folded blade, that is hard to turn down. It's definitely the lighter of the two, and that's what I'd take in part because of the quality of steel and folded forging (not practically all that important) and the nice fittings.
All in all it really boils down to your preference. I would venture to say you won't be unhappy with either. You picked a damn good company to buy one sword from.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2009 4:58:03 GMT
I vote snake limited edition swords = kickass I have the katsumushi it makes me happy
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2009 5:31:05 GMT
look at www.wiwingtiswordsupply.com there are better swords in your price range than just hanwei. If I am going to defend myself it is with a small shield and a wooden club or adze handle (like an axe handle but with a lovely thick clump of wood at the top). Then again I live in Australia and break ins aren't and issue and if worse comes to worse, the Wraith is always close to hand (though if I am in that situation I am upto my neck in s**t anyway). You could just use your nightstick for self defense, being a copper you would be trained in effective use of wouldn't you? Or ASP or whatever the coppers are carrying these days.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2009 5:39:18 GMT
I personally keep my bokken close for self defense at home I think it makes a lot more sense for self defense and probably will stand up in court far better than my other swords would
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2009 11:34:09 GMT
Thnx for all the input,all you guys advice is most appreciated! I was opting to go for the GBS,was looking at the price of it and see that it has no-hi,thought because of that it would be a rather stronger katana for tameshigiri,I checked the review of the Hanwei Shinto Elite Katana on this site www.sword-buyers-guide.com/shinto.html and was impressed by the performance and what it could do and wanted to go for that until I saw the GBS and saw the weight is almost same,with minor differences,so what I'm trying to ask is that can I expect similar performance or rather close from the GBS to the Shinto? Reason for all the 20 questions is that I'm rather a Noob and this will be the only sword I ever buy or own,so if the GBS can yield the same or close performance to the Shinto,I'll opt to go for it. I wouldn't go hack ppl or trees with it as soon as it's out of the box,but would like to know that it's capable of tameshigiri.I was rather influenced by the book of 'Miyamoto Musashi'-Go Rin No Sho(A Book of Five Rings).So I would like to begin study in bushido and most important the discipline,philosophy the old Japanese culture held of the samurai.As I would own only the one sword,it must be beautiful to look at,but yet be capable of some cutting.I won't start cutting until I've learned the sword well,but it would be nice to know that the blade would be a little forgiving with the occasional wrong cut and can be applied practical as well. I must say I'm leaning towards getting the GBS,but hope not I make a mistake in doing so,my wife almost had a fit when I told her I'm importing a Katana,but at least she quieted down after I explained that it wouldn't just lie there on the mantlepiece,it would be functional as well,he he. Thanks for all your guys input so far,this is indeed a great forum,if not he greatest I've seen yet!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2009 11:37:59 GMT
This is probably as good a place as any to stop my lurking.
Hey everybody, another South African here , new to sword buying. Also recently joined the forum to learn a bit more about swords. Will be buying my first proper one closer to the end of the year. At the moment I am considering a Paul Chen Bushido. Will probably not use it for any cutting, since I am planning on getting formal training and would rather not have to unlearn anything.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2009 15:25:02 GMT
I've never handled either of the swords you're looking at but from all I've heard and who I've heard it from the Wind & Thunder is currently near the top of my buy list. I would like to make a couple of suggestions, though. There is a guy in South Africa named James Raw who is a custom blade maker. You might consider contacting him or his representative and discuss having a blade made for you. His website: www.rawblades.com/If you believe that you may actually have need to defend your family with a sword in the event of a break in, consider picking up a wakizashi as well. It is my understanding that the shorter blades were carried for use in confined areas such as buildings. I can also attest that swing a wak around in the house is much easier than swinging around a full sized katana-- oops there goes the lamp... and the ceiling .
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2009 16:13:50 GMT
If you believe that you may actually have need to defend your family with a sword in the event of a break in, consider picking up a wakizashi as well. It is my understanding that the shorter blades were carried for use in confined areas such as buildings. I can also attest that swing a wak around in the house is much easier than swinging around a full sized katana-- oops there goes the lamp... and the ceiling . My suggestion if that is the purpose, consider picking up a gun instead (easy to get in SA I believe?), and a couple of "good" dogs (I can suggest certain blodstrains I have experience of from your country, more suitable there than here). If I am not mistaken they are legal to use in SA on your own property. I personally donĀ“t think katanas or wakizashis should be recomended for self defence, at least not primarily of different reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2009 17:52:40 GMT
I agree with pogo, a shorter blade is better when used indoors. I wouldn't take a wakizashi though, I'd take a ko katana or a gladius/shortsword. Both would work much better as a weapon in case of a break in than a full size katana would. I'm wondering, if you own two guns then why do you need a sword for self defense? The guns are the better weapons in this case. Even if you shouldn't use them they can still frighten a criminal armed with a machete enough to make him leave you alone. If you have a weapon similar to the criminal's machete he might think he can take you down even if you are armed. But a gun... most criminals wouldn't risk getting shot. For close quarters a good fighting knife would do the job, too. Maybe a kukri? Or also a machete.
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