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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2009 23:26:56 GMT
Hello all, I was looking at the Scimitar in MRL's catolog as well as the Shamshir on Cold Steel's and the Mamoluke Sword at www.militaryheritage.com/swords.htm. I have owned the Mamoluke from Military Heritage and handled the Scimitar at MRL's store in Conyer's, Ga, which is nearly identicle to Cold Steel's Shamshire. The Mamoluke at Military Heritage and the Scimitar at MRL look a lot alike, the handles being almost identicle. The Mamoluke from Military Heritage was a beautiful, sturdy sword/sabre, with a beautiful tempered blade and all, but the blade was a bit too heavy for me. The MRL Scimitar, which looks a lot like it, is also a beautiful, tight, well made weapon, and much lighter and much, much faster and a sword which you can quickly snap a cut or slice at someone. I want to get it one day. Anyway, what is the difference in all these, the Shamshire, Tulwar, Scimitar, and the Mamoluke? Are they just all variations or styles of one basic design or totally different types from one another. Just curious. Thanks, David Edelen Alabama
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2009 0:01:36 GMT
As a former Marine, this is a question that interests me too. I know the Mamaluke is the style of sword used by Marine officers, but how it may differ from other types eludes me. I have some ideas but must admit to being even less than ignorant when it comes to middle eastern blade types. So I look forward to the answers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2009 1:30:28 GMT
Hello Shoboshi, I too am a former Marine ('74-'76), and even then as a 19 yr old boot at PI, I was fascinated the way the DIs wore their swords at certain times. In the army, which I had been in before the Marines, the army drill sergeants never wore swords or anything. And then when I saw our Marine officers for the first time, those Mamolukes were beautiful. It seems theirs were real, functional swords with real blades instead of the fake, slim bladed Marine Officer's swords you see now in catologs.
Anyway, I would attach some pics of the Mamoluke from Military Heritage and the others, but forgot how to post pics. I admit, I am such a dunce! I can't remember crap. Later, FB
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2009 2:10:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2009 2:22:44 GMT
Shamshir is the persian word for swords in general. The swords you are talking about are all from different geographical regions. The shamshir is persian, the tulwar is indian and what distinguishes it from the shamshir is the distinctive handle, the blade shape is generally the same. The mameluke is a cavalry sabre based on arabic scimitars. The thing that all these weapons have in common is that they were originally used as cavalry based swords. The sword is indicative of the tactics of the cavalry who used them, they were used for slashing attacks, as the cavalry performed hit and run attacks. Later they were adapted for ground fighting but that wasn't until the time of the crusades. The origin of the scimitar can be traced back to the Hyksos who invaded Egypt around 1720 BC. The Egyptians realised the value of such a weapon and so adopted the technology for their own and led to their asserting regional dominance (2005). It is also likely that from the persian encounters with the Egyptians that they adopted the technology and made changes to suit themselves.
Hawass, Zahi. (2005). Tutankhamun And the Golden Age of the Pharaohs. Washington DC: National Geographic Society
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Post by hotspur on Aug 2, 2009 2:43:19 GMT
As to the USMC mameluke, the tradition goes back to another fellow in history that had been rpesented to Presly O'Bannon by an official in Tripoli (there is another sword known for the American made sword for O'Bannon). A short brief on the USMC sword use can be found here Click for O'Bannon linkThat has been an ongoing open thread down the list here where I had posted some information and pictures of that later presentation. Adopted by the USMC, partly as tribute to O' Bannon's actions, it was a sword type becoming fashionable even somewhat earlier. Napoleon in Egypt and more. There was a period of time when the mameluke had been removed from reculation use and replaced with what is now the USMC nco. That sword relates the 1850 infantry swords adopted of French patterns and is very much the same sword as those foot officer swords. In the 1870s, the mameluke was brought back to USMC use and has been remained as the official officer sword, with the old regulation sword updated for the nco use. Some of the early USMC swords are quite fine and predate the days of the modern swords with composites (plastics) for the grips and the plated then gave way to stainless steels for the blades themselves. Ames could probably build a non-stainless for the interested. The English were the producers for the first contract mamelukes for USMC use, something on the order of 500 swords. It was soon after that that British fashion (which had already been apparent) became the 1831 officer sword for British use. That remains to this day as well. The British made mamelukes really reigned as superior swords through the 19th century, with a lot of ivory still in use after the end of the 19th century. We simply didn't see that continue in kind for the American market and virtually all (but a few) except Wilkinson being the only British manufacturor for the American USMC mameluke. There are still a few of the brand new old stock Wilkinson offerings kicking around but as with most military swords now, kind of pale in comparison of the 19th century swords. Napoleon and other well to do Europeans also had some pretty elaborate premium swords. In eastern Europe and the middle eastern regions such as Turkey retained them for quite awhile in a more trooper kind of manufacture. Cheers Hotspur; Arizona Swords has had a few older USMC mamelukes up on the blockazswords.com/usblades.htm
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2009 1:20:19 GMT
Hello all, Here are some pics of the Military Heritage Mamoluke sword and the MRL Scimitar for comparison. They are similar and both beautiful swords. The MH Mamoluke has a much heavier, beefier blade that would cut you in half or pierce a car door, and the MRL Scimitar is lighter with a lighter, more flexible blade. First, the Mamoluke: Now the MRL Scimitar: To me, this helmet just goes with that type of sword:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2009 1:37:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2009 18:50:52 GMT
As for similarities between these blades it seems that they are all descendants of the infamous "Turko-Mongol" saber which was based on earlier curved blades found throughout Asia. This particular blade also lead to the development of the Chinese Dao blades, and even influenced the design of the Japanese Katana. However, finding any information before the Mongol period is difficult and the following reference would seem to be the earliest mention of this blade in history. chinahistoryforum.com/lofiversion/index.php/t16293.htmlIt seems that the only place the development of these blades differed is far east Asia where the designs were combined with the sword designs of the Han and Tang dynasties while in the near east the blade design remained pretty much unchanged and the major differences are slight regional variations.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2009 15:51:59 GMT
Freebooter, that helm is based on the one worn by Eomer in LoTR; just passing it along. I like it too...been trying to figure out a way to incorporate it into my existing kit.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2009 2:33:44 GMT
Hello all, Here are some pics of the Military Heritage Mamoluke sword and the MRL Scimitar for comparison. They are similar and both beautiful swords. The MH Mamoluke has a much heavier, beefier blade that would cut you in half or pierce a car door, and the MRL Scimitar is lighter with a lighter, more flexible blade. First, the Mamoluke: Now the MRL Scimitar: To me, this helmet just goes with that type of sword: Freebooter-- Hey. Nice pics. I like the ivory grips on the Officer Mamalukes, but that is pretty sweet too. Giving me a hankering to get off kats for a while and pic up one of these and an NCO. Nice running into a fellow jughead. I was in 87-92. I was a bubblechaser in the wing but I carried a rifle for the duration of the first Persian Excursion in 91. Semper Fi brother!
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