|
|
Post by hotspur on Jul 28, 2009 15:45:32 GMT
I have noticed resurgent interest in the swords for Tolkien's books. I don't have the old pre-Windlass Museum Replicas versions of some of the swords such as Orcrist. Those had been made up of blades producded by Del Tin and then assembled in the states by folk like Eddie Floyd www.swordplayalliance.com/One benchmark of a sword that evolved over the past two decades was the ideation and muse of Joel Whitmore. The sword had been a long time in fulfilling his dream and became a collaboration of Kevin Cashen and Patrick Hastings www.cashenblades.com/www.taganearts.com/This entire effort somewhat relates to me as what was a truly golden era in modern sword making. I could go on at great lengths explaining that perspective but many may feel the same about any ongoing developments. To me, it was a time when there was, perhaps, a geater interest overall than worrying whether one sword was better than another simply based on cost. The sword pictured here relates an interest that was beyond any cost factor and simply the best effort I have ever seen before the more or less commercial interests in LOTR and even the fantastic work of Peter Lyon.          The finished belt is probably out there in pictorial as well as a thread somewhere of Patrick working on the pommel. Some may only know him in the context of Japanese type fittings but the pommel shows an earlier talent that has simply grown expotentially since those days. There were LOTR wars regarding sword designs after the movies became popular. The numbers of Anduril, especially, became a matter of hot debates and he says/she says. The sword of Whitmore's dreams and life will always stand in my mind as (in a sense) beyond the pale of more recent efforts. That is not to dismiss all the customs that have followed, nor deny other work Peter Lyon has done including some other very nice work by him for customers and patrons such as David Stokes, who had also worked with John Lundemo on more than a few projects. Anyway, I thought some others here might appreciate Joel Whitmore's sword and timline from what is almost (and certainly) an earlier era. Cheers Hotspur; there are oodles of noodles at the older SFI discussions of "my Anduril is better than your's |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2009 15:54:10 GMT
Those look good but I still like the movie's sword design best.
The one of Peter Lyon is a beatiful piece though, but Anduril from 1992 looks pretty weird in my opinion. Don't like that guard and the blade's shoulders look just wrong.
|
|
|
|
Post by hotspur on Jul 28, 2009 16:25:35 GMT
Those look good but I still like the movie's sword design best. The one of Peter Lyon is a beatiful piece though, but Anduril from 1992 looks pretty weird in my opinion. Don't like that guard and the blade's shoulders look just wrong. This was posted in direct opposition to comparing it to the movie swords, so it seems to me to be a non-issue that some may like the movie swords better. Again, I see it as a time when there was no clamoring of "my lotr design is the best". A gentler and perhaps more truly enthusiastist sharing of individual taste. I offered it here as a tale from the past, without denying the popularity of the "trends" Cheers Hotspur; I'm sure my thoughts of a personalized custom effort would only appeal to a pretty narrow sector of popularity |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2009 17:08:00 GMT
It is nice to see what transitions have come about regarding this or any other blade from the fantasy genre...that there'd be a number of iterations for Anduril only speaks to how differently it was envisioned by the reader(s). Thanks for sharing; altho I will opine that the movie swords are more pleasing aesthetically, the 2002 version you posted is an attractive sword.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2009 22:52:43 GMT
The hilt detail is fantastic...especially the pommel!
I would certainly be proud to own that sword.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2009 23:05:51 GMT
Thank you for this information, Hotspur. My computer is not wanting to load the links that you posted, but the pictures that you posted are very interesting. One thing that I have wondered about is the pommels on some of the elven swords. In the Hobbit, I believe that Glamdring, Orcrist, and possibly Sting were described as having gems in the hilts (it has been a while since I read The Hobbit, so I am not sure), weren't they? I have not seen any models of these swords with gems in the hilts. Maybe I am thinking about something else, but I was sure that I remembered reading somewhere about jewel encrusted hilts or something.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2009 23:09:48 GMT
At first glance I didn't like it, but then I noticed the small details. The pommel is probably my favorite part. The blade engraving is unique, but still fits the descriptions Tolkien gave. I think the handle would have looked better wrapped in a light leather though.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2009 14:44:47 GMT
Jon, I can't speak for Orcrist or Sting, but my Glamdring has a blue jewel in the hilt, right at the center of the guard.
I think the Barrow wight swords that the hobbits acquired after Bombadil rescued them were jewel encrusted, but I don't recall any of the major swords with that description. Except maybe for Orcrist since it is the mate of Glamdring.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2009 0:58:16 GMT
That was probably what I have been thinking about. I knew that something was supposed to have gems in it. I haven't seen any of the barrow wight swords with gems, but then again in the movie Aragorn just gives them to the Hobbits. May I ask you what model of Glamdring you own? I don't believe that I have seen it before.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2009 2:37:43 GMT
since you are discussing it - just to fill in a few gaps - Glamdring, Orcrist and Sting all came out of the troll lair on the way to Rivendell, in the Hobbit (Chapter 3). Orcrist and Glamdring are described as having runes that Gandalf couldn't read and "beautiful scabbards and jewelled hilts". Elrond later translates the runes (Chapter 4) saying they were made by the High Elves out of the West, his kin, in Gondolin, for the Goblin-wars. Thorin's sword is named Orcrist or Goblin-cleaver. Gandalf's is Glamdring or Foe-hammer, and was once worn by the King of Gondolin (Turgon). Now in other, more obscure Tolkien references - the Unfinished Tales (which are essentially miscellaneous writings, rewritings, and notebook scribbles by Tolkien that were eventually complied and published by his son), Turgon's sword is described as "a white and gold sword in a ruel-bone (ivory) sheath". But hey - Turgon lived for more than 2400 years and was a king! Some of us can't go 6 months without getting another sword - imagine this guy's collection!! Anyway, I guess its' possible that this one may not have been Glamdring  In Contrast: Merry, Pippen, and Sam's swords are obtained from the Barrow-wights (Chapter 8, Fellowship of the Ring). They each take what is described as "a dagger, long, leaf-shaped, and keen, of marvellous workmanship, damasked with serpent-forms in red and gold. With "Black sheaths, wrought of some strange metal , light and strong, and set with many fiery stones." Dang, they sound beautiful! Tom Bombadil tells them that the blades were forged by Men of Westernesse (the Dunedain) -specifically for the war against the evil king of Carn Dum in the Land of Angmar - who, of course, becomes the Witch King of Angmar, captain of the Black Riders, that Merry later stabs behind the knee with this blade, making him actually take corpreal form and giving Eowyn the chance to finish him off. It turns out that "no other blade, not though mightier hands had weilded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will." (Chapter 6, Return of the King). I have always thought that this little gem of info was sadly overlooked by the Jackson movies - ah well. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2009 16:24:03 GMT
I was saddened by Tom Bombadil being cut out entirely. They probably filmed it too. Ended up on the cutting room floor.
But that's why we still read the books.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2009 16:47:51 GMT
That was probably what I have been thinking about. I knew that something was supposed to have gems in it. I haven't seen any of the barrow wight swords with gems, but then again in the movie Aragorn just gives them to the Hobbits. May I ask you what model of Glamdring you own? I don't believe that I have seen it before. I have the UC version; here's a pic of it before I destroyed it at Brenno's request. Well, he didn't request that I destroy it, that just happened as a result of said request. Here it is.  You can see this one all over the net; COA and all. I got it as a gift from an ex-girlfriend so its destruction hasn't like, made me go all depressed or anything. Now that the tang nut broke, I have it all in one place, but pieces everywhere around the blade. LOL buffjrod, thanks for the refresher...knew I wasn't trippin that hard. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2009 22:42:13 GMT
As always, Hotspur, your vast amount of knowledge is greatly appreciated. Now that I am certain about my beliefs, why has nobody created an versions that represent the original swords? Sting was supposedly a knife or dagger, and in the movies it was a short sword. The other hobbits' swords were not really similar to the barrow wight daggers, and Glamdring was not that accurate either. I would love to see just one sword that actually fits Tolkien's descriptions.
|
|
|
|
Post by shadowhowler on Jul 31, 2009 3:30:04 GMT
I would love to see just one sword that actually fits Tolkien's descriptions. No problem. get some cash together, select a custom sword maker, and have it made.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2009 3:54:20 GMT
I disagree that Sting was a shortsword in the movie - it's a short sword in the hand of a Halfling, certainly. but for men it would have been a (perhaps slightly large) dagger. I think they got it right. It's not too large. Strictly speaking, the LotR swords may have been from a whole 'nother era entirely to the medieval ones seen here. I read an article once that made a strong case for the weapons and armour in LotR being from the viking/norman period. One way to date the books is the absence of plate armour (even Aragorn wears chain mail). But in the end there's a lot left to the imagination, and I myself have always pictured Glamdring and Anduril as being more like what we saw in the movie - I really like those swords and want to own them. But the whole range of LotR weaponry is wide open for interpretation - which is great, there's tons of potential for independent smiths to use their genius and create something sweet. It's a fantasy world after all. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2009 7:20:56 GMT
One of the tricks they used to make the Hobbits look small was using larger than normal props for them, so the prop for Sting was made to actually be short sword sized because it needed to be to scale with the actor, not with the rest of the world.
I was pretty happy with the props and visual styles from the movies, even if I didn't think it was entirely perfect. I did always picture Anduril/Narsil as a good bit smaller though, something more like 44" inches or so instead of the 52" it ended up being, since there are plenty of times in the book where it says Aragorn used it in just one hand. But then again, the book also calls him "the hardiest of all mortal men" so I guess it was still small and light enough for him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2009 12:57:03 GMT
As always, Hotspur, your vast amount of knowledge is greatly appreciated. Now that I am certain about my beliefs, why has nobody created an versions that represent the original swords? Sting was supposedly a knife or dagger, and in the movies it was a short sword. The other hobbits' swords were not really similar to the barrow wight daggers, and Glamdring was not that accurate either. I would love to see just one sword that actually fits Tolkien's descriptions. Actually, barring the faux jewel in the hilt, Glamdring was pretty accurate. Long, leaf-shaped blade, jeweled hilt...the only thing mine doesn't do is glow when Orcs are near. I'm not sure why, but I feel like Orcrist and Glamdring shared that same property with Sting. Am I wrong? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2009 17:19:45 GMT
Nope, you're right. They didn't make it glow in the movies due to an oversight, since the passage that talks about Glamdring glowing is in The Hobbit, and I think there's only one place in the Lord of the Rings itself that mentions it.
I do wish they had made Anduril shine silver in moonlight and red in sunlight like the books said.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2009 20:27:03 GMT
Yea, I missed seeing that...I just knew Eomer and Aragorn were going to meet, Guthwine for the Mark, Anduril for Gondor- and the Flame of the West would show redly along its keen length.
Ah well...I think, given that it was Tolkien they were looking to recreate, they did an admirable job of it. In fact, I'm quite certain The Hobbit will be just as good, with Peter Jackson at the helm.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2009 22:23:06 GMT
I don't think that Peter Jackson will be the director for the Hobbit.
|
|
