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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2009 14:25:07 GMT
A recent thread on the Windlass 15th c. longsword, started me pondering (again). Why are there few reproduction versions of this guard style? Manufacturing cost I know plays into it some. There's the Windlass 15th c. l/s and German bastard, Del-Tin 2160, Arms & Armour Geramn Bastard, Armour Class does one, Lutel makes several, Pavel Mac does a couple but my thing is most of these are over the $300 mark and/ or semi-custom or custom made pieces. Shooter Mike has a AT 1562 Lady Restita "light weight" I'd love to have (hint, hint , nudge, nudge, wink, wink . But in the sub $300 market, there isn't much except for the two Windlass swords. Guess I'm just trying to put a bug in the ear of folks like Valiant Armory and CAS /Hanwei (which I've had a talk with the Marketing Director for them about). Anyone else have a hankering for this style guard? Sorry for my self-indulged plea of sorts, I get something in my feeble brain pan and it just comes out (or gets lost in the fray) cheers, Bill
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2009 16:35:26 GMT
Yeah me definitely likes. Antique longswords with complex guards are the hotness.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jul 22, 2009 16:59:44 GMT
Yeah, they're among my favorites too. It's a bit hard to design a blade for them though. It's very easy to "overweight" the guard and make a superb longsword into a so-so performing piece just by adding the rings. It seems to have a big effect on harmonics. My light-weight AT1562 with rings is now wearing a standard guard, just because it significantly improved the blade's performance. The knuckle-ring guard is now press-fit onto my ATrim single-hand LPM saber. It didn't hurt, and actually helped the handling and cutting of that saber blade. And to me, that saber is all about hand protection. Christian Fletcher completed a knuckle-ring guard and scabbard package on an AT1509 for me early this year. Unfortunately, the added weight turned a good cutter into a non-performer. That guard and fluted pommel are about to go on another heavier blade, so a standard guard can restore the performance to the 1509. It seems to be all about an intricate balancing act between the guard & pommel weight and the way the blade's designed. But I'm with you all the way Bill. I wish more makers would design and build blades and knuckle-ring guard models that are expressly engineered to go together. Every time I mention it to Gus Trim, which is fairly often since it's so close to my heart, he just grumbles and changes the subject.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2009 17:22:11 GMT
They're pretty spiffy. Remind me of beidenhanders to be honest; maybe they can add that kind of guard to their custom shop?
M.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2009 17:32:55 GMT
I really dig the ones from Lutel...quite a bit above the 300$ price range thought...and that's not even counting shipping...
So, Billiam, I too would very much like it if such guards -and even more complex or rare ones, like the ones ShooterMike posted on the Windlass 15th c. longsword's pommel thread for example- on longswords could be found more often in (or around) the 300$ mark...I'm another strong supporter for such guard designs by manufacturers who could eventually read this thread...
I see what you mean about a somewhat intricate balancing task with those, ShooterMike, but if Windlass achieved a good sword (i.e. the aforementioned 15th c. LS), by most accounts, it should still be feasible, to some extent, and at least it gives us hope in the possibility of a relatively good-handling complex guard longsword in our price-range...
But then, thinking about how Windlass or other sub-300$ manufacturers failed so often in conceiving apparently simpler models...doubt appears...They hit it right sometimes, sometimes they conceive real crowbars...How much does luck has to do in this?
On a side-note, the twisted "8-shaped-guard"/katzbalger-esque guards (lacking the specific term for those) on four of the Lutel longswords is really really nice! I'm liking the looks of them more and more...without caution, this could get quite expensive.
Reflingar edited to add: Billiam: "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" lol...I know what you mean, I know what you mean, just watched And Now, for Something Completely Different yet once again recently...
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Post by brotherbanzai on Jul 22, 2009 17:36:09 GMT
I have the Windlass 15th century too that I got because I like the ring guard (turns out I didn't like the rest of the sword that much). I've not seen an antique blade up close, but from the pictures I've seen, the rings on historical swords look very thin. It may be that in order to have the sword handle well, the rings need to be forged rather than cast. That might put the assembly process above the $300 for most makers.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2009 17:41:42 GMT
NNNOOOOOO!!!!!! Not the Lady Restita!!!!!! You've broken my heart Mike...what a beauty that was!!!!
Just kidding of course.
Yes, I see your point about how the added weight (even though it can't be all that) can / could change the harmonic balance of things. But, still the German's of old seemed to have favored (to a certain extent) this style and complex hilts in general, so surely there is the glimmer of hope that a well balanced sword of this guard style is possible..yes?
Once I got a decent edge on my 15th c. l/s, it's grown to be one of my favorites.
thanks & cheers,
Bill
edit: got stopped in the middle of typing this reply (shhh..I'm at work) so missed some of the other replys since Mike's.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2009 17:52:43 GMT
Another wish / fantasy...would love to see a double ring guard on the impending Valiant Armoury Malatesta.......that would just be uber sweet.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2009 18:22:48 GMT
Another wish / fantasy...would love to see a double ring guard on the impending Valiant Armoury Malatesta.......that would just be uber sweet. Agreed!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2009 22:12:08 GMT
Yeah would highly suit the Malatesta but watch that price go up Hey it could be a thought for a Regal Line Malatesta ......... I got a fiction manuscript where a rather dark character packs a differentially hardened Kriegmesser with a figure 8 Katzbalger guard and a handspan riccasso for half blading. Hes not polite with it either
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2009 23:27:52 GMT
Hm, maybe sometime I can get a ring guard made (forged) for a krieg, when I buy one...
M.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2009 23:41:54 GMT
I don't even think albion has tapped into this type of guard, is it really that hard to do? I like ring guards with the U-shaped guard. Come to think of it I don't actually think I've seen any of our makers do a sword in this config. If the malatesta came with this config I would be hard pressed not to find the money for it somehow. The Jake Powning Du-Sith has an interpretation of this type of guard from the looks of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 0:56:55 GMT
I'm taking an educated guess that the casting would be more difficult and time consuming for the double ring guard, maybe they dont think there would be enough market for it versus time involved, but I would think that a katzbalger wouldnt be beyond question
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 1:36:20 GMT
ooh this is what I am talking about;
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2009 11:56:39 GMT
Sweet bloodwraith.....haven't seen anything from Salamander Armoury for a long,long time.
cheers,
Bill
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Post by ShooterMike on Jul 24, 2009 19:54:21 GMT
First... I apologize to Bill for teasing him so mercilessly. Here's a few shots of my recently assembled AT1566 with custom knuckle ring guard and fluted pommel. Sorry that the pics are a little wopyjawed. I think I was trembling while snapping the photos. It handles like a dream. Bill, need a tissue?...
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Marc Ridgeway
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"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Jul 24, 2009 20:07:01 GMT
jeez... what a BEAUTY Mike... wow
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2009 22:12:11 GMT
Saaawwweeettt! & no apology needed.....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2009 0:18:05 GMT
only one tissue? That is poetry, pure poetry. Does anyone have any examples of historical swords with ring guards?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2009 3:46:58 GMT
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