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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 15:40:25 GMT
With a project I am working on I am considering removing a pommel that is peened on. I assume the steps I will need to perform will be something like this:
1. Remove handle, exposing tang. 2. Use something (wood with hole, etc) to force pommel farther down tang 3. hammer exposed mushroomed peen back to original shape 4. remove pommel
Now I realize that the above steps would work in a perfect world, but I am sure I will run into some different problems. One, might be that the pommel is tight fitted and will not be able to "run" down on the tang anymore.
If I run into this, I guess I could, carefully, grind out the peen without touching the pommel. Then, knock the pommel off. I understand with this method I may need to shorten the handle a bit or shorten the blade shoulders a bit to "lengthen" the tang. I also realize that I won't get the handle off without destroying it. I will just make a new one.
Has anyone done something like this? Any advice? Do my instructions at least look about right?
As usual thanks!
-gaffer
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Post by ShooterMike on Jun 12, 2009 20:08:14 GMT
I've done 4 different Hanwei swords and a peened Christian Fletcher sword like this. The secret is grinding out the old peen so the pommel can be tapped off with a plastic hammer head.
Unless the grip is solidly epoxied to the tang it should come off after the pommel is removed. I like to clamp the blade to a tabletop and use a piece of 1x2 soft pine board as a "chisel" against the front of the guard. Then you can tap off the guard and grip together. I've always worked for me. But I'm sure it depends on what sword you are trying it on.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Jun 12, 2009 20:29:14 GMT
Normally, a peened pommel is put on before the grip. It shouldn't be possible to slide the pommel further down the tang, so there is no point to removing the grip first. I would do as ShooterMike suggests. Grind off the peen carefully so as to minimize damage to the pommel. The pommel may also be countersunk (though not terribly likely on a production sword) at the end so that the peen expands slightly down inside the end of the pommel. If that's the case, you'll have to grind out the part of the peen inside the pommel with a dremel or something.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 23:39:10 GMT
Gentlemen, thank you for your input. It has given me the information to move forward. That was a general question, and now I will explain the specific project I am embarking on. Hopefully the below information might help someone else who may wish to remove a peened pommel in the future. But please keep in mind that this could vary on different swords. I recently received my second Windlass type XIV from MRL yesterday that I purchased for the $122 sale price. I choose the sharpened option on this one. Everything is good with it except that the cross guard is not quite ground to the center. See picture below. The yellow line shows the “bend” and the white line shows the center. Things like this bug me. I probably could have ground the cross guard on the sword but having it in hand will make it much easier. Luckily, to make it correctly centered requires removing material.. Then I thought… PROJECT!.... I was already going to put a new handle and wrap on so I thought this would be a good learning experience for me. I removed the leather and then split the wood off. It was sort of glued a little but came right off. I have no doubt you would have been able to remove it using shootermikes method he described above. Then I had what is shown below. At this point the cross guard was loose. I then tapped on the pommel just a bit and it slid down as shown in the picture below. As you can see there was just a bit of metal that was actually peened over. As per ShooterMike’s and brotherbanzai’s instructions above, it would not have taken much grinding to have been able to remove the pommel without destroying the handle (again, I didn’t care to destroy it). Next I simply filed off the little bit of metal that was peened over and the pommel and cross guard came right off as shown below: The picture below just shows the pommel and the end of the tang. The hole in the pommel goes all the way through, and they had a little bit of glue in the bottom. After I grind and even up the cross guard and create the new handle, I will recess (or countersink if you will as brotherbanzai mentioned) a small hole in the top of the pommel to allow a bit more metal to be peened. There is just a hint of that on the pommel now, and I will be expanding it. I will also be making my handle a few mm’s shorter to allow for peening and this additional recess in top of the pommel. -gaffer
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2009 18:15:43 GMT
Nice! Helped me a lot for my next project: making a guard and pommel for a tinker longsword. About peening, so you think it makes for a better peen if you countersink the peen in the pommel?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2009 19:05:20 GMT
so you think it makes for a better peen if you countersink the peen in the pommel? I think it would as with a bit of countersink more metal is actually bent over for the peen. Also if you want a nice smooth peen (almost hidden), this would be one way to do that. -gaffer
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Post by brotherbanzai on Jun 13, 2009 20:47:49 GMT
Yikes! They're calling that a peen?! It looks like it's a good thing you've taken this apart. I wouldn't want to trust a sword that was held together with such a tiny lip of metal. Not really a whole lot of point in having a peened pommel if it isn't keyed to the tang either. I'm sure you'll do a better job when you put it back together.
This makes me wonder if some makers are doing "peened" pommels because that's what people want but then doing such a poor job that it's actually less secure than a threaded pommel.
If you want the peen hidden, definitely countersink the hole but I would make the counter sunk area about three times deeper than the little graphic shows.
Nice pictures too. Good luck with the project.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2009 21:12:35 GMT
Yikes! They're calling that a peen?! Good luck with the project. That's what I thought.. I normally call metal like this a burr :>). I am not even that interested in hiding it, but I wanted much more metal holding the blade to the handle, so I will be countersinking. Thanks, I might actually make a how too out of this, I am now working on the handle.. have some glued wood drying right now. thanks again, -gaffer
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2009 8:39:56 GMT
Maybe the peen was fine before they grinded it flat and polished it to fit the surface of the pommel?
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Post by ShooterMike on Jun 14, 2009 15:32:42 GMT
Thanks for showing this 'Gaffer. I've been considering a project on my MRL Type XIV. Now it's just about manditory in my mind. I appreciate the enlightenment this post has provided.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2009 23:28:29 GMT
Question: Removing Peened Pommel PART III have finished this project up (well, I am starting on the scabbard, but that is another story :>), and thought I would share a bit of the steps I took. First of all I got the guard evened up. (see picture below).. looks MUCH better now. I also re-did the grip, wood handle with a leather wrap, but I will be creating a "how-to" on this so I won't go into much detail here. The below shot shows the original pommel with the peen. The next shot shows the pommel after I countersunk an area for the peen. I actually made the countersink even deeper then shown here, but forgot to take a picture, but you get the idea. This shot shows the pommel after I peened it (boy is THAT ugly!). I probably had a bit too much of the tang out, but it did work out in the end. It sure made everything very tight.. The below shot shows the pommel and the peen cleaned up a bit.. looks hopeful at this time! The below shot shows the finished peen and pommel. It is just barely visible. The below shots shows the finished sword with the new grip. I am very pleased with how it all turned out. Everything is very tight and it now has a LOT more metal peened into the pommel. Again, thanks for all the advice and nice comments. -gaffer
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2009 23:41:25 GMT
Very, VERY nice job! Good cleanup.
Seeing that peen makes me curious about my classic medieval.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2009 13:56:51 GMT
Very, VERY nice job! Good cleanup. Seeing that peen makes me curious about my classic medieval. Thanks Maz! I am looking forward to starting the scabbard for it. By looking at the classic pommel (I own one also), it appears to be an identical setup, except the classic appears to have a bit more metal peened over. I am sure this could be a bit different for each sword as they are all hand made. -gaffer
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2009 15:07:39 GMT
Well done, Gaff...you make it seem so easy. Every time I get a look at that XIV I find myself wanting one just a wee bit more...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2009 20:06:51 GMT
This is exactly what I was looking for!! First time I see a peen that is not grinded down yet. Sticky this!!!! By the way, +1, gaffer
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