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Post by Kilted Cossack on Jun 11, 2009 23:33:40 GMT
Howdy, folks. I generally don't play here. Generally, I spend my time at the European/Middle Ages or Post Renaissance/Military swords subfora . . . and maybe I ought to scurry right back over there, who knows? But I so very much dig on Mongolia, and beyond that, on Central Asia, and beyond that, on the great Eurasian steppe, that I felt it was incumbent upon me to sneak in here, and solicit your opinions, advice, and, potentially, derision. I spent two years in Kazakhstan, and two weeks in Mongolia, and now for the life of me I can't get shaggy little nomads riding shaggy little ponies out of my head, or out of my sword thoughts. I spent a lot of time thinking about Mongolian swords, and then my poor shaggy little brain said, "oh snap!" (Some people say I snapped a long time ago.) Hey, said my shaggy little brain, not only were the Manchus the founders of the Qing dynasty, but the Mongols were the founders of the Yuan dynasty to boot! So (continued the shaggy little brain) what are the odds that some of those Central Asian influences got stuck in Chinese weaponry? Like, say, in a dao? Then when I was thinking about other things entirely (Thich Nhat Hanh, if you can believe it) I stumbled across the website of the Great River Taoist Center, which led to me stumbling across this Scott Rodell review of a Vince Evans Mongol Saber, right here: forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=740Hmm, says I! Looks like a dao to me. Now, I'm no horseman, and I'm no real stickler for historical accuracy, but I find myself thinking that I SIMPLY CANNOT LIVE WITHOUT A REAL SWORD THAT LOOKS AT LEAST A LITTLE LIKE A MONGOL SABER. Sorry to shout, my enthusiasms, she just run away with me. So I turn to you now, my brothers and my sisters, for input. I'm looking for a very "SBG-type" approximation of a Mongol saber. Sub-$300, practical, stout. Browsing the KOA Chinese swords section found here: www.kultofathena.com/swords-chinese-br.asp these are the swords that leapt out at me as reasonably worth considering. The Hanwei Practical Kung Fu Sword. Paul's review really spoke to me, loved the sword sound it made. Sure, it's lighter than any horse-borne saber ought to be . . . but I'm going to be cutting milk jugs and suchlike, and if I get in a fight with a Mongol horse archer, he's going to feather me at 300 yards anyway. The Valiant Armoury Chinese Broadsword. I'm betting it's from the old "pre-Sonny" days, which will probably mean it's bigger and heavier than it "ought" to be. Then again, says I, "bigger and heavier" than a Chinese broadsword, not necessarily bigger and heavier than a Mongol saber. The Kris Cutlery (I always type Kris Kutlery somehow) Dao Qing is NOT listed as "Battle Ready" but . . . it is 1060. Does that mean it's not tempered? Or just unsharpened? (Although vast swathes of Windlass unsharpened swords are listed as Battle Ready . . .) You may notice that these are all on the cheap cheap side of swords. It's in my mind that, once I get gainful employment again, I might toss some money Garrett's way for a custom "Mongolian dao" but when you have the itch, you have the itch. I have the itch. The Central Asian nomads came boiling out of the desert, at intervals, for pretty much as long as we know about history, and regularly conquered "petty" and "inconsequential" civilizations like, oh, China and Persia and India and the Roman Empire (Eastern Branch), and o my brothers (and o my sisters) I have a hunger in my soul to have a sword that at least looks like the kind of saber they might have carried. So, what do you say?
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Post by sicheah on Jun 12, 2009 1:29:27 GMT
I could not understand why Kris Cutlery Dao Qing was not battle ready, It is 1060...go figure Anyway Kris Cutlery Dao 4 is battle ready and you can get one from KoA for $275. To be honest I don't know the quality or handling about Kris Cutlery Dao so someone here might be able to help. Anyway it is here: www.kultofathena.com/product~item~KRSDAOIV~name~Kris+Cutlery+Dao+IV.htmYou can always contact Garrett for a price quote of a custom Mongolian Dao. No harm asking. My guess is maybe over $300 but tell him you're from SBG forum and you get 5 percent off. I am not sure if Hanwei dao are suitable for cutting (maybe it is?). The jian is not for cutting for sure. Edit: could not get the KoA link to work but try this: www.kultofathena.com/swords-chinese-br.aspDao is somewhere in the middle with $275 price tag
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2009 23:16:24 GMT
The turko-mongol saber is an influential design for Chinese swords. The Hanwei Practical Broadsword can be used for cutting, but none of the other Hanwei Chinese swords are really suitable for cutting. As for a sword that looks like the mongol saber in the forum post you pointed out. Try looking for a "Goose-quill" saber (Dao) that will get you a blade almost identical to what you saw pictured. and example is here: www.zheng-wu.com/dao/qingdao.htm
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Post by shadowhowler on Jun 13, 2009 1:26:30 GMT
The Hanwei Practical Kung Fu Sword. Paul's review really spoke to me, loved the sword sound it made. Sure, it's lighter than any horse-borne saber ought to be . . . but I'm going to be cutting milk jugs and suchlike, and if I get in a fight with a Mongol horse archer, he's going to feather me at 300 yards anyway. I have the Hanwei Kung Fu Sword for sale right now, save ya a chunck of change if your interested... /index.cgi?board=selling&action=display&thread=10258 It's a nice feeling sword... but like most Non-Katana Hanwei products, it could stand to be a bit sharper. For the money tho, it's great. I suspect the Kris Cutlery Dao would be much better... the edges on the Kris Cutlery swords I have gotten have been very nice... but they make a lot of blunt and practice Dao's... they cheapest functional Dao is around 250 - 275 and thats a decent chunck of change.
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Jun 13, 2009 2:25:06 GMT
Shadowhowler, PM sent.
LPBoyle: Thanks for the link. I may give in to the lure of "cheaper and faster" now, but if I know myself at all, the sword I'm going to try and buy from Shadowhowler will only light a fire for a nicer, heavier, more accurate version down the road.
sicheah: Also, thanks for the link. I've heard mighty good things about Kris Cutlery, although the cheaper dao they offer would require sharpening. The Dao 4 is just slightly more than I'd want to pay at this time. I'll further admit, Jin Shi is on my mind as a contender for the "upgraded version" down the road.
PS: If by any chance you ever get the opportunity to go to Mongolia, jump on it, tie its feet together with a piggin cord, and sit on it until you are actually in the land of gers (yeah, Russians call 'em yurts, but . . . ). It is a life changing place.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jun 13, 2009 4:13:41 GMT
Well, I love Mongolian BBQ. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2009 4:14:50 GMT
Kris' Dao qing is not battle ready mostly because of the weight and the dull blade, I think. Nearly 2 and a half pounds is pretty heavy for a single hander and the POB is in the neighborhood of 6 inches from the guard. It wears my arm out pretty quick. Also I can't find any mention of temper.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2009 4:19:44 GMT
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Post by shadowhowler on Jun 13, 2009 4:23:17 GMT
Yeh... the 85 dollar Dao on Kris Cutlery's site is blunt and for training only, it is not battle ready... the least expensive functional one they have right now is $275.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2009 16:11:59 GMT
Well, I love Mongolian BBQ. ;D Me TOO!!! As for the OP, hey man, I say go for it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2009 18:46:22 GMT
Well, I love Mongolian BBQ. ;D Me TOO!!! As for the OP, hey man, I say go for it. Yeah, Mongolian BBQ is pretty kicken. Too bad I haven't had any since the little one started on solid food, he's getting more adventurous but I still haven't been able to get anything Asian down him yet. (Doesn't mean I've given up trying.)
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Jun 16, 2009 3:36:46 GMT
Guys:
I've "done the deal" with Shadowhowler for the Hanwei Practical Kung Fu (Gong-Fu, whatever) sword. I know it won't be a true representation of a Mongol saber, but it will "scratch the itch."
Here's a short story about Mongolia. It's a true story. Right after I married my wife, I "had" to go to Mongolia. Poor poor pitiful me, right? Oh, Br'er Rabbit, don't throw me in the briar patch! It was a two week gig, under a USAID subcontract, working on drafting a joint venture agreement for the sale of the state cashmere company. Under USAID rules, I could only work 40 hours a week.
Ulaan Bataar is the capital, and it means, in Mongolian, "Red Hero." Yup, it was renamed after the Soviets got a major hand in, in the early 1920s. I ended up hanging out a good bit with one of the drivers, who had been, in the 1980s, a driver for the Mongolian Embassy to the USSR. We drank some vodka and ate some mutton.
Friday afternoon we finished up early, and had the chance to head out to a national park where they were reintroducing the Prizhevalskiy horse. We call it the Prizhevalskiy horse because Prizhevalskiy introducted them (for the second time) to Europe, and they actually disappeared from Mongolia. But what we call the Prizhevalskiy horse, we ought to call the Temujin horse, or the Genghis Khan horse, because it's the same shaggy, stocky, stiff maned little pony that rode to Moscow, and China, and Persia, and India, and drowned in great numbers off the Sea of Japan.
The national park dedicated to the "Temujin" horse is a couple hundred miles from Ulaan Bataar, and at least a hundred miles from the next source of electric lights. When the sun goes down, the sky is not black. The sky is orange and purple and red, and the purple is a deep purple, like velvet, and you feel that, cliches notwithstanding, if you could stand just an inch higher on your tippy-toes, you really COULD gather in the stars, like jewels, to be your playthings.
Most of the gringo staff I was working with, they didn't want to go out to see horses, but a couple of us did. All the Mongolian staff went. The blonde accountant brought Jack Black, and I brought Jack Daniels, and when we ate, we were sitting around in a circle, passing the bottles around, under the stars, the stars so close you could gather them in.
They butchered a goat for us, the visitors, and put it in a steel can, and added garlic and green onion and salt and pepper and water, and then they used tongs to take hot rocks from the fireplace, and add them to the can, and sealed the can. In thirty minutes, they opened the can up, and we passed around the hot rocks, from hand to hand, easy to grab ahold of, hard to hold on to. We had individual bowls of the broth, and there was a single platter of the meat and onions. Where the rocks had pressed up against the meat, the meat was seared, otherwise, it was tender, steamed, delicious. We sat in a circle, a gringa, a gringo, the Mongolian staff from USAID, the Mongolian staff from the park.
We slept in a ger, on wooden framed beds, under woolen mattresses.
The next day, we saw some Mongolians hawking, loosing sleek hawks from their wrists against marmots as big around as my thigh. We went out and saw the herds of taki, the indigenous Mongolian horse, that shaggy little pony that conquered the world. They were few in number, but the trend lines were good.
We drove back to Ulaan Bataar, in newish jeeps with air conditioning and stereos, listening to Europop music . . . but somehow, still, to this day, there's a part of my heart that's still in Mongolia, sitting under the stars, so close you could gather them in, passing the bottle around, drinking from the bottle, eating that good meat, the feel of the hot rock still in your hand. . . .
Maybe not everyone would have reacted the way I did, maybe some people would have found it trite, or boring, or too too.
But I have a feeling that when I am drawing my last breath, when the faces of my wife and children, my father and mother, have flashed before my eyes, before my eyes will flash the night sky, the laughing faces of those Mongolians, those Mongols, I met and bonded with, and the taste of airag in my mouth, and the stars, so close, so close you could gather them in if only . . . .
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Post by shadowhowler on Jun 16, 2009 5:26:43 GMT
What does goat taste like? My wife and I hope to travel a lot at some point... she already does travel quite a bit (she serves in the USN) but not to very nice places... and we don't get to travel together.
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Jun 16, 2009 12:33:09 GMT
"What it tastes like" is something I struggle with. Somehow it just don't seem right to fall back on the ever popular "it tastes like chicken" (which I've heard about everything from rattlesnake to alligator). Goat doesn't taste like mutton, it's not as heavy and gamey, to me, goat tastes somewhere between beef and pork.
This was absolutely stellar goat meat, though. The time span from bleating to eating was probably about an hour, and these guys knew how to butcher. Very tender, very tasty. Admittedly, the setting probably contributed to the meal itself.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2009 15:07:07 GMT
Sounds, like the Chevap I used to eat in Bosnia. Oh wait, that was goat meat mixed with lamb and beef. Mmmm Mmmm good. Tasted vaguely burgerish but with a pleasant earthy gamey taste to it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2009 19:50:05 GMT
kilted...I could almost see what you were talking about; settings such as those are what makes life worthwhile, to see it, give witness to it later on thereby enriching those around you. Who knows, I may walk that path one day and if I do, I'll be looking for what you yourself saw so I'll say thanks now, because I know I'll be feeling it then.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2009 12:25:59 GMT
Well KC, now I want to go to Mongolia. Good luck to me getting my wife on board with that idea. Maybe if they were to start a new tourism campaign:
Mongolia: The NEW Virgin Islands!
(+1 for your visually striking narrative!)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2009 6:26:22 GMT
Mongolia? Been there, enjoyed the nomadic life some 3 weelks in a jurta, nearly joked on cooked goat's eyeballs, given to me by the host as a speciality. Later my friend and travel companion got so sick by riding on camels all day long, that we had to be airlifted to the next hospital, because his intestines were totally intertwined. The surgery was done in Beijing, a few days later, it's nearly 20 years now, but he 's still fighting with bowl problems. Never made it back, only by Trans Sib through Mongolia to Moskow, and though it's a cheap ride, it's rather boring.
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Jul 2, 2009 23:19:17 GMT
taiwandeutscher:
Man, I'm sorry to hear about your friend's bowel problems. I didn't get any eyeballs in Mongolia, but I did get them once in Kyrgyzstan, as the "honored guest." That was a moment of pure panic! However, I pride myself on not being an ugly American (I mean, I'm ugly, and I'm an American, but not an "ugly American") and I told myself that they were doing it to honor me, and had another hundred grams of vodka, and ate 'em down. I've noticed that when I travel to Central Asia (not as often as I'd like to!) it takes me a couple of weeks to adjust to the differences in the food.
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