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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2009 9:08:35 GMT
Dark, you welcome.
Its wonderful to watch what can be done in an art after it has been "mastered" but nothing i would consider doing until that level has been archived over many, many years.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2009 10:45:47 GMT
I know it is not an art that can be applied to everyday life, but it is a way of dedication and effort, and much more elegant than learning how to use a firearm. What makes you think learning to use a firearm with proficiency doesn´t take dedication and effort? No matter what you wanna learn, if you wanna learn it properly, it always take dedication and time...any short cuts you take in this process will just cheat you. you know what I mean, a gun, you press the trigger, end of the story. a sword, you need to feel it as a part of you in order to use it proficiently.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2009 11:32:35 GMT
What makes you think learning to use a firearm with proficiency doesn´t take dedication and effort? No matter what you wanna learn, if you wanna learn it properly, it always take dedication and time...any short cuts you take in this process will just cheat you. you know what I mean, a gun, you press the trigger, end of the story. a sword, you need to feel it as a part of you in order to use it proficiently. there's a lot more to shooting a gun than to press the trigger. You want to hit the target. Multiple times. It takes the same feeling as a sword.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2009 12:47:10 GMT
HR: wow! you were actually almost nice, that isn't like you, are you feeling alright?! Less stress. Graduation mellowed me right out. Don't worry, if someone posts something REALLY stupid (not ignorant, but STUPID), I'll be there to crush them like so many soda cans in my recycling bin. ;D Darkansem: If your university doesn't have any JSA groups there or nearby, see if they have Olympic style, 3-weapon fencing. Most colleges have either a team or a club. Yes, it's European-derived, but it's a start. Fencing will give you the 1-on-1 sparring you want, as well as give you an excellent sense of footwork and timing. Many features of sword-arts are very similar, if not identical, between Asian and European sword-arts. Not so much between Olympic fencing and Kenjutsu, but the grasp of timing and distance-work will certainly help you in any form of swordsmanship you choose later on.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2009 13:04:03 GMT
I'll see about that. It is a nice suggestion.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2009 21:27:53 GMT
- there is a new version of Otake Sensei's books out, a one volume update, available at koryu.com - good source for other Japanese sword reference books and information on the hundreds of legitimate, historical sword styles out there. - it is not a manual, it is a reference. interesting stuff, but not much help if you don't have a teacher. - you might look at 'Flashing Steel' by Shimabukuro sensei. Also good stuff. - most of this is passed on by verbal tradition and hands-on training. most of it is not available in books or video, even now. the folks that tell you different are making money at it. not what this is about. - if you do want to learn, and not just play, let us know about where you are and perhaps someone can recommend a dojo. most will let you try a class or two - steel on steel contact is a bad idea, in general. swords are not for hittings swords, they are for cutting people. training with bokken can teach some aspects of sword, but not all. - Musashi's style of two swords still exists, but the two-sword forms are only a small part of the total.
good luck,
Dave
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 0:40:05 GMT
The others have pretty much already conveyed the concerns of sparring with steel weapons, as well as learning from books/videos. Your next step if you want to actually get formal training on combat with Japanese swords, is to research the various martial arts for sword. Kenjitsu is one I know of that deals with actual partner sparring. I practice Shinkendo, which is practical, combat oriented sword art. Also Kendo, is Japanese sport fencing art, using shinai, and armor. Lots of fun. Then you next step after finding some arts that sound like they fit the bill for you, look up for local dojos and make a visit. Most all dojos are more then happy to have you sit and watch a lesson, or even participate in one class, before making any commitments. I really suggest that road if you are wishing to learn formal Japanese sword combat.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 7:10:42 GMT
What makes you think learning to use a firearm with proficiency doesn´t take dedication and effort? No matter what you wanna learn, if you wanna learn it properly, it always take dedication and time...any short cuts you take in this process will just cheat you. you know what I mean, a gun, you press the trigger, end of the story. a sword, you need to feel it as a part of you in order to use it proficiently. And this attitude will get you in trouble right there. Even a simple thing like making tea is an intricate process if you REALLY wanna learn it right(tea must have enough room to bloom, must not be in contact with certain materials while steeping, the water must be at the right temperature for type of tea, etc etc). Using a sword is just moving your arms by your thinking. If you really think a gun just requires you to just pull the trigger please don´t ever shoot a gun...EVER. And from your posts, I´m afraid that this line of thinking will spread into your swordmanship and without a good sensei I smell trouble ahead. This ¨vibe¨ is the reason your getting such serious catastrophic replies I believe. Now this is the internet and a lot gets miscommunicated...but many things still are learned by what people posts.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 7:22:49 GMT
@ socho isn't flashing steel about iaito? I live in Rome Even european swords are meant to hit people and are not suited for sword-vs-sword fight?
@ gman what is the difference between kenjutsu and shinkendo? I had never heard about it
@cold Napalm I am a karate black belt. if anything I DO know that anything takes its time to learn. And I absolutely have no desire to shoot a gun.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 14:05:09 GMT
darkansem - Flashing Steel is about iaido. ( Iaito is a training sword, iaido is the art.) The book is also about some basic concepts in swordsmanship. Shimabukuro sensei, the author, teaches a variety of arts, including kenjutsu. Worth reading what he has to say, IMO. Swordfights in the movies involve a lot of steel on steel contact. That's the movies, stage fighting, chanbara, choreography. Fun stuff, but meant to be big, noisy, flashy. And some folks identify swordfighting with fencing or some other type of point fighting (kendo). All good disciplines, but not really what Japanese style swordsmanship is about.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2009 22:06:11 GMT
@ socho isn't flashing steel about iaito? I live in Rome Even european swords are meant to hit people and are not suited for sword-vs-sword fight? @ gman what is the difference between kenjutsu and shinkendo? I had never heard about it @cold Napalm I am a karate black belt. if anything I DO know that anything takes its time to learn. And I absolutely have no desire to shoot a gun. Well I won't speak of something I don't know much about, so I'll let one of those who actually practice Kenjutsu, talk about it. Shinkendo is a rather new, relatively, art founded by Toshoshiro Obata, who studied many of the older sword arts. He studied under Nakamura at one point. The art covers these basic areas of practice. Battaho(sword drawing), Kata(solo practice forms), Saburi(repetative practice drills), Tachi Uchi(partner practice), Tamashigiri(test cutting). Everything but the test cutting of course, is done with bokken or batto. The art is very much about safety, control, and technique. www.shinkendo.com is the main website with more info on the art and the founder, Obata. Maybe go ask in the JSA forum here for some recomendataions and referance material on different arts. People are always happy to inform someone of their arts, and continue the addition of practitioners.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2009 5:35:19 GMT
i found this while looking around for different items. it comes from this site www.replicadungeon.com i realy would not advise going by their chart. i like how they double back on a couple of points on their chart Functionality Rating (1) Display Only - Should not be used for any type of combat - this includes, but is not limited too, swinging the sword around nor hitting any other objects. (2) No Contact Use - The item is capable of being used for light swinging in moderation - perhaps to be used to practice the forms of sword-play. (3) Light Contact Use - Able to withstand simple parrying of another blade and/or being able to attack simple objects (i.e. cardboard, kata mats, & styrofoam.) (4) Full Contact Use - Stage steel quality! This is completely functional in every way shape and form. The item is able to withstand blows from another sword & is able to be used for combat purposes. PLEASE NOTE: It is best to have the supervision of a qualified person to be present at all times when a sword (or other weapon) is swung around as there is a danger in hurting yourself, bystanders, or the weapon itself. It should also, be noted that a bladed weapon would need to be replaced after every battle due to it being destroyed during combat. We suggest STRONG CAUTION when using your sword for this purpose as damage WILL occur to the blade. (Damages include, but are not limited to, loosening of components, along with nicks & scratches and dings and dents to the blade itself.) If you wish, perform a test cut with your sword. All we ask is that you use the proper target materials for practice and that you do so under the supervision of a qualified instructor. It should be pointed out that the Japanese, who believe in a lot of sword practice, use thick bamboo. The bamboo is resistant to a cut, but doesn't have the rigidity of a tree, and so would not damage a valuable blade. For a Samurai to hack at a tree would have been unthinkable.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2009 6:33:26 GMT
you do NOT advise to follow this ^ correct?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2009 13:15:56 GMT
espacialy this part It should also, be noted that a bladed weapon would need to be replaced after every battle due to it being destroyed during combat. We suggest STRONG CAUTION when using your sword for this purpose as damage WILL occur to the blade. (Damages include, but are not limited to, loosening of components, along with nicks & scratches and dings and dents to the blade itself. i dont know any one who do this unless the blade was specifacly made for stage combat. most of the swords i so this guide for on their site were for fuctional swords meant for cutting
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2009 13:22:54 GMT
it did sound fishy enough just to clarify, the so-called blade combat is actually, by your words, an accident, caused to the skill of 2 that spar which actually desire to cut each other? (it sounds dramatic I know XD)
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2009 14:39:10 GMT
Sounds like the OP wants to indulge in a little backyard beater activity; point him to DSA and send him packing- he doesn't want the advice that's been given thus far. We tried; if he gets injured, no one's to blame but himself, we all did what we could to dissuade him from doing him and his friend bodily harm. Let it go.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2009 14:53:42 GMT
This actually brings up a valid point though. Where would one get a stage combat Japanese sword from? I mean obviously movies and even plays use such sword all the time for corrigraphed fights, that entail blade on blade contact. Euro stuff for this purpose is a lot more prominant it seems, but what about Japanese? I mean, just about every iaito(dull edge) sword you see out there has a disclaimer stating it's not intended for blade on blade use. Most will say not to use a shinken(even if it's dulled) for this use either, as it's not intended for such use. So where do you get a good, quality, safe, stage combat Japanese blade?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2009 15:10:32 GMT
@ebon paladin: explain your abbreviations (OP, DSA) and your post, since it needs an explanation. My last post was just a curiosity, I couldn't spar right now even if I wanted to. Gman: I had heard that too, that the Japanese sword is not suited for an eventuality of blade-vs-blade combat. I guess this is because of the shape of the sword (more suited to take damage, perhaps, from another sword but paradoxically more useful against non-swords). and it links back to
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2009 21:42:40 GMT
If you hold a black belt in karate then you'll understand why people here are loathesome to offer you books titles that can teach you JSA of any sort. All the reliable books for JSA are simply reference material and NOT a teaching manual. It is the same with karate. Do not attempt live blade sparring. While I have seen some forms performed with live blades at seminars, tournaments and shows these were performed by highly trained individuals and there was absolutely NO blade to blade or worse yet blade to body contact. If you do try live blade sparring you not only risk serious damage to your swords you also risk serious injury and death (of course many have said this before but I feel the need to reiterate). Shooting a firearm is more than just pointing and squeezing off a few rounds. I hold a black belt in karate and kenjutsu but honestly if someone breaks into my home the first thing I reach for will be my pump action 12ga. shotgun. The 1911 sitting in my nightstand drawer is next and if zombies attack then I grab a katana... er actually I'd probably grab a machete... maybe. Back to the point - karate is great and kenjutsu is just as great for combat - if you're on the mats or a ring. If it all comes to reality and someone walks into my home with a sword drawn (hilarious thought really of someone going to rob a house with a sword), I'll shoot'em first then ask him where he got his sword afterwards.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2009 22:24:41 GMT
I know I can't learn from a book (even if some karate book from some real sensei was useful, and a lot) I just want to know a bit more of it before starting to practice the whole thing.
I hope the last part is hipothetical and not real, otherwise a shotgun in the house would really be scary XD
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