Two Italian Cavalry Sabres: The M1834 LC and the M1860 HC.
Dec 21, 2019 12:09:03 GMT
Post by Uhlan on Dec 21, 2019 12:09:03 GMT
The charge of the Carabinieri at the battle of Pastrengo by Sebastiano de Albertis.
Introduction.
The models before the M1829, I read there was an Italian HC pallasch inspired by the French Cuirassier pallasch called the M1824 and a LC sabre inspired by the French ANXI, were indeed from a bygone area.
The House of Savoy thought it wise to develop its own system and thus the M1829 LC was born.
This sabre had a steel hilt with details harking back to the 18th century French taste. It also had a flat blade in the style of the French AN IX Dragoon pallasch. Only 5 years later there is the M1834, a truly modern looking and very Italian model. The M1834 was soon copied by the Danes with the Danish M1843.
Although the Danes usually preferred brass for the hilt parts, with this sabre they used steel or cast iron.
The Swedes with the brass hilted models M1842-M1854 and M1864 in a way copied the Italians also.
In Italy the series went on with the M1860 and ends with the last, still somewhat usable of this line up, the M1871 with its anachronistic pipe back blade.
Although the M1860 and M1871 are readily available, the M1834 is very hard to find, even in Italy and I count myself very lucky to have stumbled upon one. The M1829 seems even more elusive.
The M1829.
The M1834 LC.
The Italian M1860 HC.
The M1871.
The Italian M1834 LC and M1860 HC Cavalry troopers sabres.
The M1834 comes in two lengths.
The blade of the M1834 LC has a regulation length of 89.5 cm with a thickness of a whopping 11.5 mm.
The blade of the M1834 HC has a length of 94.5 cm as can be seen in the following picture.
A page from the book Armi Bianchi.
I do not know how thick this blade was.
The tang is peened over a square peen block on top of the pommel cap and then polished down.
The hilt is of excellent build with a strong back strap.
A small detail that fascinates me is that they kept the ferule of the M1829 with its typical pointy back.
The M1834 performed well for at least 26 years and through two civil wars.
It may be reasonable to conclude, by looking at the scabbards, that the model stayed in service long after the introduction of the M1860 HC.
The lake of Geneva from a map of circa 1550. This was once part of Savoy territory.
The numbers for the M1834 LC.
Manufacturer: Unknown.(See under ,,Stamps'')
L.O.A: 108 cm.
L.S: 103.5 cm.
B.L: 89.5 cm.
W.B:32 mm.
Th.B: 11.5-9-7-6-3 mm.
W.O.A: 2095 grams.
W.S: 1150 grams.
P.O.B: 15.5 cm.
The blade has a short foible (19 cm) compared to the M1860 (23 cm). If we deduct the 19cm from the blade length of 89.5 cm and assume that the foible of the M1860 at 23 cm has the standard length, we almost get the length of the M1834 HC (93.5 cm versus 94.5 cm). This makes me think that there was just one blade length made, the 94.5 cm for the HC, which was then simply cut down to 89.5 for the LC version, thus creating the short foible.
The M1860 HC sabre.
This new model was introduced in 1860 as per decree of July 1 of that year.
The M1860 HC has only one regulation blade length of 89.5 cm, but mine measures 90.5 cm in length.
It looks like the regulations here are to be considered more or less as guidelines.
What is also of note is that the blade is lighter. It starts off at 9.5 mm compared to the 11.5 mm of the '34 LC and the thin foible is longer (23 cm). So, even as it was much lighter than the LC '34, it still got the HC label.
This may be partially explained by the changing tactics, but this ,,going light'' may also have been a side effect of the introduction of the M1855 series or just plain fashion, as the rest of the European powers were on this particular band wagon too.The blade tang is threaded, like the blades of the M1855 series.
This tang end is about 7mm thick and has 7 threads. The tang nut is the massive bulgy part on top of the pommel cap.
It is, like the partially massive pommel cap, very heavy. Both are heavy enough to draw the balance somewhat back and give the M1860, despite its lighter blade, 175 grams over the weight of the '34.
If you want to have a look at the dismantled sabre go here:
sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/59368/italian-m1860-message-work-floor
The numbers for the M1860 HC.
Manufacturer: Hartkopf of Solingen.
L.O.A: 108.5 cm.
L.S: 105.5 cm.
L.B: 90.5 cm.
W.B: 32.5 mm.
T.B: 9.5-7.5-7-5.5-3 mm.
W.O.A: 2170 grams.
W.S: 1262 grams.
P.O.B: 14 cm.
Interesting Bezdek note: Hartkopf, as main contractor, in the firms heyday, churned out 2000 sabres per week thanks to an army of small subcontractors.
That is complete sabres, not just blades!
Farewell of the conscripts, by Gerolano Induno.
The scabbards of the M1834 and M1860 sabres.
The scabbards of the '34, of the first generation, so from before 1858, had the ring mounts set wide apart, as in my example under review here.( 23 cm)
The regulations of 1858 demanded that the ring mounts of the M1834 should be set closer together, to 11.5 cm, like we see on the M1860, but only for new '34 scabbards and in case of repairs.
This is the second generation of the '34 scabbards.
We may now safely conclude that the '34 was kept in service and/or storage long after the introduction of the M1860.
It must also be noted that there are M1860 with first generation '34 scabbards.
And lastly, to make things even more complicated, there are M1834 and M1860 around with the single ring mount of the third and last generation of scabbards from the end of the century.
I recommend that you only go after a regulation spec model and leave the rest well alone.
Another oddity I found was an M1834 with a nickel plated hilt. This must have been done after 1870-71 at least. Some collectors had this done as this all new miracle material saved maintenance so they thought, or it was a parade example, but again, leave these be as those are not regulation.
Another oddity: The top one has the blade of an M1855 series sabre.
Stamps.
The 1834 LC.
There are erased Prussian style unit stamps on the edge, just under the ricasso, of the 34.
All I can see is: II. . 2.M. . . Nothing to see on the scabbard.
Very hard to make a good picture.
The inspection stamps on the ricasso and the guard are, as always, the first letters of the inspector's name in a rectangle or oval.
Here it reads: B F .
Under the beak is an M stamp. The W like stamp is unknown at this moment. It is not listed in Bezdek.
I found an other example of this elusive W where it is partially stamped over the inspection stamp.
Reading through the lists in Bezdek gave me the idea that this stamp may be some kind of a crown.
If this is true than the stamp is probably a (Savoy?) acceptance stamp and/or tax stamp.
Realities of war. Postcard of the Risorgimento.
The M1860 HC.
This one hasn't any unit stamps anywhere.
Should read ,,Hartkopf''. The F is near erased for some reason.
There is an small N stamp on the pommel cap flange.
The inspector here was Z L in oval.
(See: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/59368/italian-m1860-message-work-floor )
Work.
The 34 is still the old battle axe with the scars to prove it.
Those scars and further tool marks I will always leave intact since they are part of the history of the blade.
Both blades cleaned up well with 180 grid and 280 grid and the usual polish.
There are still some small pits here and there but most of that is gone now.
The 34 scabbard had a thick crust of rust in patches, but it, like the M1860 scabbard,cleaned up really well.
Under the rust the steel was still sound, which surprised me.
One thing to take note off: The little screws on the scabbard mouths are there to hold the blade and prevent the cutting edge to contact the scabbard wall. They are not there to fasten the mouth pieces. The little screws hold the blade steady at the thinner side of the ricasso and the spine.
So it is imperative to remember which screw goes where in case you take them out while cleaning the scabbard, as there is always one short and one long one. I would have much prefered a scabbard with wooden liners, but the Italians went for the French way, spring metal strips brazed to the mouth piece that fit into the fullers.
And those scrape your nice new polish right off the blade.
Yup, that's how they were.
Conclusion.
Though I prefer the M1834 LC qua its stouter build, both these '34 and '60 sabres are very well made and well handling sabres. It is a shame though that the '34 is so hard to come by and the M1829 even harder to find.
Glad to have these icons of the Risorgimento in the collection.
Cheers.
Light Cavalry of the Piemonte Reale regiments.
Notes.
sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/50781/swedish-cavalry-troopers-sabre-m1864.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_unification
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Sardinia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brescia
www.heraldry-wiki.com/heraldrywiki/index.php?title=Italy#Coats_of_arms_of_municipalities
milite.jimdo.com/militaria-italiana/arma-bianca/dal-regno-sardo-alla-repubblica-italiana-1814-1945/
miles.forumcommunity.net/?f=1614030
it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggimento_%22Piemonte_Cavalleria%22_(2%C2%BA)
www.museocavalleria.it/Scuola%20e%20Reggimenti/Linea/Piemonte.htm
www.gpedia.com/it/gpedia/Reggimento_%22Piemonte_Cavalleria%22_(2%C2%BA)
boowiki.info/art/armee-de-deux-siciles/armee-de-deux-siciles-2.
www.storiologia.it/savoia/reitalia.htm
www.bandieresabaude.it/Bandiere061.html
eleri.interfree.it/itn2008/uniformi/Italia/cavalleria/schede/sk_cav_linea.html
www.ohio.edu/chastain/ip/italaam.htm
heitalianwarsofindependence.blogspot.com/
/
italianmonarchist.blogspot.com/
translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fmiles.forumcommunity.net
%2F%3Ft%3D60218627
bbcc.ibc.regione.emilia-romagna.it/pater/search.do?value%28OGTD%29=sciabola&value%28DTZG%29=sec.+XIX&option%28DTZG%29=strict&type=oa&
www.zeitspurensuche.de/02/auswan2.htm
www.zeitspurensuche.de/02/nam1sg1.htm
translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Ftizianapoli.jimdo.com%2Fregno-di-napoli%2Fregno-2%2F
translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fhowlingpixel.com%2Fi-it%2FRisorgimento
translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fhowlingpixel.com%2Fi-
it%2FEsercito_delle_Due_Sicilie
.
. The thread was not the same but the screws tapped their own when I screwed them in.
