A Swedish Cavalry Troopers Sabre M1864.
Apr 14, 2017 16:27:42 GMT
Post by Uhlan on Apr 14, 2017 16:27:42 GMT
The Swedes losing their colours to the Poles, by Wouvermans.
History of the model 1864 Cavalry sabre.
The following texts I have dug up on www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/index.php?s=f29d9b2ab2989ff6dc549e93a5404b18
My only contribution, if one would like to call it that, is that I combined the 3 separate parts and translated them to form a more or less coherent story. So here goes....
"After the outbreak of the Crimean War, there was a danger that Sweden could be drawn in too.The Swedish army was anything but prepared. All the Cavalry had were the old M1842's.
A Swedish M1842 Cavalry sword.
Therefore the build up of weapon reserves was called for and so the military authorities asked His Royal Majesty to allow the purchase of an extra 2000 Cavalry sabres.
These sabres should be like the Danish M1843, but with a brass hilt instead of an iron one. This request was granted and so the M1854 Cavalry model came into being.
A Swedish M1854 Cavalry sabre. Notice the ferrule and the grip wire.
The Cavalry sabre M1854 comes with three different grip variants and four different scabbards.
Probably the first model had 7 windings made of brass wire as well as a transverse rivet. Later, the rivet was considered superfluous and the handle only had 7 windings. The third model has no less than 10 windings.
The scabbard of the saber M1854 was changed in 1868. In that year the lower ring mount is pushed further upwards, though later on also the scabbards from the, at that point, new M1864 Cavalry sabres were used. Originally, the distance between upper and lower eyelets was 24 cm long. In the change the distance was shortened to 12 cm, just like on the scabbards of the M1864. In 1908, it was ordered that for all these sabers, yes, they were still in use!, the scabbard mounts should be changed again to the one ring and hook design. The scabbard of the Cavalry sabre M1893 served as a model and the reason for the change was that at least the scabbards were uniform in the variety of saber models. It is noteworthy that in 1908 no less than three units were still armed with the saber M1854, despite the new models established after 1854. As with all other scabbards of that time, they were made of polished steel sheet. In 1912 they were uniformly blackened.
A Trooper of a Train Regiment. He wears an Infantry uniform and a Cavalry helmet.
His sabre is an M1854 with an old configuration (24 cm) scabbard.
The 2000 new sabers M1854 did not last long. In 1863 there were only 1,567 usable sabres left and several regiments needed new ones. The regiments granted 30,000 crowns for the purchase of new sabers M1854. However, these new sabers were not exactly the same as the M1854 and therefore got the new model designation M1864.
As with the saber M1854 there were three variants of the scabbards. Variants M1868, M1908 and M1912. These can be read under the heading "Saber M1854". However, this saber has only one grip design. The rivet came back, the windings were dispensed off, as was the ferrule with the integral finger loop attachment slit. The finger loop now went through two slits in the hilt, just behind the grip.
A Trooper with his M1864 in a very dented M1908 scabbard.
The saber was issued to:
The Life guards on horseback in 1867.
The Crown Prince Hussars in 1870.
Jämtlands Jägercorps on horseback in 1876.
Here follows an explanation of the stamps on another sabre M1864 and the technical specifications.
Troop stamps:
8 R 2 S No 91 = 8th Regiment / 2nd Squadron / Number 91
8. Regiment = Jämtland's hunting corps on horseback
6 - probably serial number
LRN - Nyström, Ludvig Roland - Inspection officer
A.F. - Fast, Carl August - Inspector
Technical specifications:
Length with scabbard: 1,08 m
Length without scabbard: 1.05 m
Length of blade: 95 cm
Width blade: 3 cm
Arrow height: 0.8 cm
Weight with scabbard: 2.22 Kg
Weight without scabbard: 1.31 Kg
( End of the story on Deutsche Blankwaffen.)
The blade length mentioned here got me thinking. My example has a blade length of 89 cm, not 95 cm. So I emailed Mr. Thomas Albrecht, who is the owner of Schweden-kavallerie.de and asked him about this, being used to a world where specifications are just that, not ,, guide lines''. I mean, if one ordered a sabre from Solingen with a blade length of 95,44321 cm, one got exactly that. ( Well....) Even in France specifications and tolerances were very tight. What was going on in the Swedish forges? So I asked whether the Swedes used something like the French three tier system maybe?
Reply from Thomas Albrecht from Schweden-kavallerie.de:
,, I cannot share your thoughts on the length of the blade of the Saber M1864. A comparison to the French system is also prohibited. There are no comparisons between Swedish and French production. In those times (before and afterward), samples were made of a piece of equipment. The manufacturing companies received a sample and produced the piece in similarity to the pattern. In the manufactures military officers were employed to check the production "by the sample". However, tolerances were always planned. For one handmade the pattern and not as today, according to millimeter. When the officer released the weapons, they were taken over by the military. Here differences in the length were quite possible - but only up to a certain limit. I think that blades longer than 100 cm were send back.
Contrary to your assumption the planned length was not 95 cm, but anything between 90 and 91 cm. Those blades are absolutely within tolerance.
However, also 95 cm long blades are completely in order ''. ( !!! )
And here we come to the crux of the story. I should have called this post:
,, My M1864 and everything that's wrong with it ''. Which is not doing it justice, because there is nothing wrong with my example as a weapon. It is still as tight as on the day it left the forge. It will do what it is made for. And here my bias comes into play. The last sabre I reviewed was the Solingen made Schleswig - Holstein, see: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/50584/schleswig-holstein-mounted-artillery-sabre
Before that one I did a slew of French sabres. One thing both France and Germany have in common is a pride in workmanship. Probably the Swedes had that too, but my M1864 does not look like that at all. And given the ,, rather wide tolerance '' story and looking at other examples of this sabre model I found images of on the internet, I think I can make a case for ,, Sloppy Swedes ''. Because sloppy work is what it is. No straight line in sight. Even the spine shows wild variations in thickness. The termination of the underside of the fullers, where they go into the edge, is wobbly, going from wide to narrow.
Looking at the images of others it is easy to see that the fuller termination varies per sabre and this termination can be so ill defined as to be nearly invisible. The ridge running from the fuller termination up to the tip is often vague and ill defined. And the ricasso looks like it was made of melted butter.
As I said before, I may be spoiled, but I was quite shocked to see all of this.
That, not very much later, this same nation could have made the M1893 sabre or the beautiful Schwedish Mauser M1896 made my head explode, so to say.
Work.
So. It is not one of the most exalted examples of the forgers art. So what?
It works. It had a long service life after all. My sabre needed quite a bit of work to get it anywhere near presentable though. The blade was quite heavily corroded, as was the scabbard.
The basket has this level plateau so the washer fits well on the scabbard. Nice!
Luckily the corrosion did not go deep for the most part. Most of it could be removed, though there are still reminders here and there.
The finger loop was gone, so I made a new ,, antique '' one, copied from the images from the internet.
The sewing was not easy as the grip is in the way, but nevertheless it got done.
The sabre needed a new washer too and I had to jack up the basket with a copper wedge under the blade shoulders, as the old washer was missing. Doing this it was interesting to notice that the brass basket was well tempered, as it works like a spring. Even with the old washer missing the sabre did not rattle and it took some force to get the wedge in. The tempering also makes it very resilient to deformation.
The scabbard came out fairly well too. The mouth piece had to be removed as it was very rusty inside. One screw was gone, the other one rusted very tight, so I had to drill it out and make two new little screws. And lastly the scabbard liners were missing, so I had to make two new ones. Now the sabre sheets very well again and does not rattle and when the blade is struck one will hear a nice ,, boing ''.
The numbers.
OL. sabre with scabbard: 107.5 cm.
OL. sabre: 102.5 cm.
BL: 89 cm.
BW: 32 mm.
B. Th: 8 : 6.5 : 5 : 3 : 2 mm. ( 1" from the tip ).
FL: 25 cm, measured from the nick in the spine, not the termination of the fuller.
WT: 2024 grams.
WS: 1063 grams.
POB: 12.5 cm.
The stamps.
On the ricasso: L. R. N. ( Nyström - Ludwig - Roland ).
Besichtigungs Officier at Husquarna. So the sabre was made there.
A. F. ( Fast - Carl - August ). Besichtigungs Rüstmeister.
Inside of the beak: A. F.
On the scabbard: A. F. and A. L. K. ( See the image of the beak a little futher down ).
This A. L. K. is interesting. Mr. Albrecht gave me all the info on him:
f. 17/5 1853 Svanshals (Östergötland), d. 21/8, 1880 in Hakarp.
Lieutenant in Götaland Artillery Regiment.
Inspection Officer exam in Carl Gustaf Stad 1863.
Asst. Inspection Officer Carl Gustaf Stad 23 / 1-1864 - 12 / 3-1864
Inspection Officer at Carl Gustaf Stad 12 / 3-1864 - 31 / 3-1865
Inspection Officer at Husqvarna 9 / 4-1865 - 14 / 1-1867
Storeroom Officer Karlsborg 1870.
So the sabre was made between 9-4-1865 and 14-1-1867 at the Husquarna works. Nice.
Now for the Regimental stamps:
On the first scabbard ring mount: 7R - 5S - N95. This means: The 7th Regiment Hussaren - 5th Squad - weapon number 95.
This 7th Regiment Hussaren was the only one that was NOT Royal and was called ,, Kronprinz ''.
On the beak of the sabre we find 2 and 36. Here you can see the scabbard stamps too.
This probably means 2th Squad - weapon number 36. As it was customary to store the sabres apart from the scabbards, you'll have a very hard time finding a set with matching numbers. The sabres were handed out on a ,, this fits and if you have anything to say, I'll have you peeling potaters outside for the rest of the winter '' basis.
The 7th. Hussars on parade.
Handling.
The grip is very nice and the finger loop helps a lot to direct the blade with the open grip.
The basket is wide enough for good hand protection and the bend down beak does not interfere, but forms a wide and solid resting point for the thumb when held in that way. I think this is not a bad sabre. It misses some of the lively feel of the Schleswig, but it is nearly there. It is not tiresome at all and well capable of very nice point work. Nah, it's not a Swedish baseball bat, though if the blade were any longer, like the 95 cm of the example mentioned above, handling could change to the negative. The one above is 247 grams heavier ! Pity the blade was made in that disinterested way, but I am glad to have it, in this configuration, in my little collection.
Cheers.
Stockholm. War preparations.
Notes.
www.schweden-kavallerie.de/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Prince%27s_Hussar_Regiment
www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/Sweden/Army/Organization/c_swedisharmy4.html
www.hhogman.se/regiments_cav_eng.htm