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Post by Kilted Cossack on Apr 15, 2009 21:05:07 GMT
I'm just going to pretend I'm Kosciuszko sabering down redcoats----I'm sure I'll like it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2009 1:09:59 GMT
That'll do it!! ;D
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2009 16:22:07 GMT
Sabering redcoats...sounds like an extra fun pastime. Its funny; I am NOT a katana fan, that is, I like the way they look but that's about it- but the saber, for some odd reason it appeals to me. Maybe because it has its roots in our great country's liberation from the evil Empire (sorry, couldn't help that one lol) but whatever the reason is, I think I'm going to have to get one.
Since I am not going to spend a bunch of money, do you all suggest the one by Windlass as a good starter?
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Apr 16, 2009 21:04:29 GMT
Ebon Paladin:
Mine should be here on Monday; by Tuesday or Wednesday I should have at least initial impressions to report. And by the way, I applaud your "avatar comment"---"Safeguard the helpless, do no wrong" is almost as good a life philosophy as "Be excellent to each other."
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2009 1:11:22 GMT
Ebon Paladin,
I like it but YMMV. I would wait to hear kiltedcossack's opinion (if he's still speaking to me after ;D) first. Also, Charles has one (see earlier posts) and I will be very interested in his opinions.
Both Windlass sabers I own have a lot going for the money. The 1860 L.C. would be a good start-Sharpen option from Atlanta Cutlery brings the total to approx. $107. The only negative for me so far is that the wire on the wire and leather grip makes you favor a glove to use. The American Revolution is more costly with the Sharpened option from KOA totals approx. $149 and is more comfy with the bare hand. It's guard allows left handed use if that appeals to you also.
I foresee lots of fun with both!!
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Apr 17, 2009 2:19:14 GMT
wambo:
I'm pretty sure I'll like it. I don't have much saber experience at all. Practically, in fact, none. (I spent three weeks at two hours a week playing at "sabre" but that was Olympic fencing type sabre, and oh incidentally about twenty five years ago.) I have done a little half-ass drill with a USMC NCO sword, but that was a late model and I now guess it to have been a skinny, underweight, unbalanced, stainless steel SLO.
My current swording experience is all related to the Windlass Qama, straight out of KOA. (Google it up, it's pretty cool, a Persian long dagger/short sword that is spitting distance close to a Roman gladius.) Compared to that, I'm pretty sure the American Revolution saber will be a CUTTING MACHINE. It is in the corners of my mind that I might dink around and see if I can come up with an acceptably entertaining way to add a thumb ring to the saber, on down the road. That might add both some flair and enhanced controllability.
If anything, my reservations are that I'll really like it, and it won't be a patch on the responsiveness and agility of a true vintage blade of that style. If I like it---and I plan to----and it's not really all that great, I might end up putting off for quite a while taking Hotspur's advice and looking into the vintage blade market.
I know from prior experience in divers fields (particularly, kilts and handguns) that I tend to "dip a toe" into a new field of endeavor, pinching my pennies and bemoaning paying full freight for a first class item. Sometimes that's good, sometimes that's bad.
The good part is when I can narrow down my interests, where I can try relatively inexpensive variations on a theme until I can settle my preferences. The bad part is when I can overthink my theories and spin out into outer darkness, like Darth Vader at the end of Star Wars. (Just "Star Wars." We do not accept Lucas' later revisions.)
I know that swords have not evolved into progressively more efficient "swords qua swords" over the ages, but have been shaped by resources and the state of armor, but a part of me still cannot resist seeing the 19th century cavalry saber as the product of millenia of development and refinement of the sword for use against a lightly armored opponent. (Yes, the American Rebellion took place in the 18th century.)
I've got a feeling that, unless I simply hate the ARS, I will start planning on saving up for a 19th or 20th century military sword. It won't have stood with the Thin Red Line at Balaclava, but it will still be a functional weapon which, if obsolescent, was in no way obsolete.
And I'm the kind of guy that can sit and chew on that idea ("soon now, I'm going to get me a real military sword") for months and months, worrying at it like a dog with a bone. For now, though, I'm just looking forward to the American Revolutionary saber's arrival.
While I recognize the ahistoricity of the furniture, deep down I kind of like it. It has a certain brute, provincial integrity to it. As John Prine sings, "We're not the jet set, we're the old Chevrolet set." And, I hate to admit it, I like the kind of Soviet proletarian sturdy peasant style of art look of it. (I was always very anti-Soviet, but I like the "peasant hero" art, go figure.)
We is enthused.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2009 21:20:17 GMT
Well,
Today I took a bunch of V8 Fusion empties and filled them with water and did some cutting. I first cut a couple with my Gen2 Lucerne one-handed, which is a great sword. It covers up sloppy technique. I then tried my Grosse Messer for the first time and of course, it does beautifully also. Then I tried my Windlass 1860 L.C. and didn't do very well. Harrumph! I then switched to the Windlass American R.S. and did crap on the first cut. I then concentrated on the physics of the cut more, and whoosss!-Right through the bottle! It proceeded to cut well on the next few also. I then tried the 1860 and it did much better. Between the two, the R.S. is the better cutter but this tells me I need to spend more time with the 1860 since it won't hide any sloppy technique. I finished off the remaining bottles with my newly accquired Cold Steel 1917 Cutlass, which turns out to be a great cutter!! (thanks Ric for your review!)
Bottom line is I love this saber! It's feeling better and better to me the more I use it. Since the guard allows left handed use I'm going to try it as well for fun. Not bad for a sword for less than $150 from KoA sharpened and ready to use.
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Post by hotspur on Apr 19, 2009 3:19:37 GMT
Familiarfty with how a given sword performs of handles is a big part of performance. Some swords one picks up seems to almost direct itself to sublime bliss. Others take awhile to get used to their character and handling. Of all types of swords I have approached vutting with, some have taken a good bit of use before becoming second nature. My feeling is that all too often, reproductions get lumped into less than what can be really nice swords.
While I deperately first looked at what cavalry type of sword I wanted for cutting fun, I came to the conclusion that a cavalry wasn't exactly might best suit my play on foot. I have yet to own a longer cavalry sword for backyard cutting but an honest antique of the same is definitiely still on my list to round out that period of the 19th century. Sooo anyway, I went with a fairly straight and shorter infantry type sword for cutting fun. Still, it became (and continues to be) a matter of being able to get the best of handling through practice (of which I am sorely missing these days).
For sturdy more modern back yard possibility, the German WWI era mounted artillery swords look to (me) be like a good fit for many. They bounce around the $500 mark but most that I see out there are quite pristine. These swords have a look not unlike the old 1796 sabres, while the biggest difference will be more of a thrusting tip.
I had cut a few times with one of my old eagles and in that case, I think I have pulled the shots a bit but still discovered what tremendous capability in its weight class could be realized. I think with any of the reproductions, the same practice and understanding of a given piece will eventually net the best one can from a particular piece. I think most realize this with any tool, vehicle or even spatula ;D
If anything, I found I have rushed through appraisal of too many of any reproductions I have owned and try to get back to them, even if it means playing with only one of the crowd for a good long time. Quantity leads to dissapointment in performance all to easily by not giving another a chance.
Cheers
Hotspur; Was that a ramble or what?
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Apr 20, 2009 22:00:25 GMT
Wambo:
The dread HAND OF DOOM has passed ye by! That is, I am in receipt of my very first saber, the American Revolution Saber by Windlass Steelcrafts, shipped and sharpened by Kult of Athena. My initial impressions are that it is quite flexible, has a decent edge and a good point. The wood grip feels good in the hand; the guard has a rugged proletarian esthetic, and I like the double fullers. There is a single narrow fuller along the back edge, and a wide, deepish fuller along the front edge. My eldest daughter is jumping up and down saying "Daddy it's COOL" while my youngest daughter is shrinking away from it, saying, "Daddy I'm SCARED."
With any luck at all tomorrow I shall be out slicing bottles, and shall report further.
The lobsterback that attempts to overrun my perimeter tonight will be met with small arms fire and, if necessary, cold steel.
Although it is not the tool I would have carried as a Marine NCO in years past, I cannot help but hear, echoed in my ears, the cry, "Land the landing party!"
The pleasure I take in it is doubly redoubled by the thought that my dear amigo, Larry M "Doc" Hudson will be receiving the spitting image of this saber tomorrow, and he has already said he does not know whether to cuss me for sending him a sword, or thank me (I told him neither would be the best answer).
If my enthusiasm dampens in the future, for now I am tickled pink . . . and customer enjoyment is what our hobby is, in the end, all about.
Avast, ye blackguards!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2009 0:59:06 GMT
That is great news! (Um, especially the "hand of doom" part  ) I am getting more use to the feel of the blade and really enjoy the handling. It is a bit more heavy in handling than the 1906 Ames sword, but it is more substantial too and slices nicely with the current blade balance. I love it's simple look and how the grip reminds me of the 1796 L.S. Yep, I love it! Have fun holding off the bottle horde-Take no prisoners!! |
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Apr 23, 2009 2:26:06 GMT
Too early by far to consider a review, but here are my initial impressions of the American Revolution Saber, sharpened, by Windlass.
The scabbard looks decent enough, but the metal bits feel "junky" and the leather is flimsy and floppy. The chape came loose.
The blade has a good appearance, and has been hand-flexed to thirty degrees side to side with no ill effects. I like the combination of the narrow, deeper fuller and the wider, shallower fuller. The sharpening service provided a definite, but not extreme, secondary bevel. The back edge of the blade is not sharpened for what I consider the traditional 6-9" (i.e., past the terminus of the fullers).
The spiral carved wooden grip is comfortable and elegant, to my eyes at least. The wood cries out to me for several hand rubbed coats of tung oil, but perhaps having treated rifle stocks that way prejudices me. The wood is really quite lovely. It is a light brown, shot through with darker streaks. (I would proudly sport equivalent wood on a revolver.)
The guard expresses what I have referred to in the past as a kind of a sturdy proletarian esthetic. From a distance, if you squint, you could mistake it for a European Polish hussar style saber of the late 18th century. From a distance. If you squint. The knuckle guard is of square section. None of your fancy European hoity-toity flutings and fleurs-des-li for us sturdy republicans (small r, note!). To my eye the guard, at the back edge of the blade, has an awkward and unnatural look---perhaps the curve is too tight, or the square section it is formed of simply doesn't work at that angle.
My hand fits the guard and grip comfortably. The grip is completely ambidextrous, although I have not yet done any left handed attempts.
I have an embarrassing shortage of bottles handy, and have only cut three so far. Each was a two liter bottle for soda water (although it was sparkly water in our case). The first cut was a tip cut. When I made it I was still getting used to the idea of the point being in a different place than my muscles expected. The tip cut split the front half of the water bottle quite neatly at about the 1/3 from the top level. The bottle bounced a bit but did not fall, and promptly . . . umm, what's the word for "exsanguinated" when you're talking about water leaking out?
The second bottle was initially batted. A second attempt at it decapitated it, and also "exsanguinated" it, about 1/3 down from the cap. This bottle also tumbled over after the cut. The third bottle was a good solid slice. (For me.) The top of the bottle was neatly sliced loose and fell over. The bottle remained standing, although it rocked for a moment and some excess water was spilled.
The only real sword cutting practice I have is with my Windlass Qama, and obviously the American Revolution Saber is a very different animal, simply due to the very different design parameters. Because of these differences, I don't really think I know enough about the saber yet to make any grand pronouncements. I'm still learning the manual of arms, as it were. Actually, that's exactly what it is.
Three bottles, and three cuts (one partial, two whole). In addition, our backyard has a hackberry tree----and I decided it would taste cold steel, if not Cold Steel cold steel. (The Russians have a joke about "oily oil" but I should probably return to my subject.) I engaged a number of limbs between half and three quarters of an inch, and began to develop a better feel for where the sweet spot lay. The hackberry tree is not a hard wood by any means, and I have hacked away at significantly thicker hackberry limbs with machetes to good result. I was not attempting destructive testing, but I wanted to test it out.
The blade had a bit of sap on it, but no damage. The guard and hilt remain tight and solid feeling. I like this sword, and look forward to a good bit more play time with it. I have downloaded the 1903 (or 06?) US Navy cutlass manual, and want to study on it some more to see if I can incorporate a formal manual of arms.
I believe I have a myarmoury.com post on the fabrication of a custom Polish hussar uber-saber, and I further believe there's some pictures of the scabbard being made. I may have to buy me some cheapish wood and bust out the dremel.
I have so far tread relatively cautiously with sword purchases. I have purchased low priced Asian reproductions (the Qama, the American Revolution Saber, and the soon-to-arrive Valiant Arming Sword). So far I have been impressed by what I have received for my (scant few) dollars. I like my two Windlass swords quite a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2009 3:18:01 GMT
kiltedcossack,
Good, eh, pre-review(?). Nice detail also. Sorry about the scabbard chape coming loose. Mine, so far, is ok. It's not as nice as the metal scabbard for the 1860 L.C. but I like this sword better. Excellent description of the grip by the way.
+1 for the "pre" review.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2009 21:16:04 GMT
Wambo,
Tibbs here, kinda new myself to the forum so here it goes.
I picked up the WS Revolutionary War saber a few months ago. Being involved in Rev. War reenactments I wanted a good looking saber. It has not let me down. The blade has a very good contour and is very much in line. The temper is typical WS kick butt heat treating able to flex well over 7". Hilt construction is solid, performed the British Proof Test and it passed with flying colors. After putting an edge on it has performed cut after cut, after cut on Coke bottles up to laundry detergent bottles and the fittings are still tight. It handles very well and the tracking is fantastic. I haven't had the pleasure of handling the German Hunting saber but if it's as solid as the Rev. War saber, either one would be a good pick.
Hope this helps
Tibbs
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2009 2:39:47 GMT
I'm glad you like it! I love mine, and still enjoy it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 18:28:38 GMT
Pictures?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2009 18:57:50 GMT
My wife happens to be a descendent of "Lighthorse" Harry Lee (NOT through Robert E. Lee, but by Harry's first wife) and she's been wanting a sword like Harry would have carried--seems like the one here (and I get to play with it! ;D )
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2010 9:55:10 GMT
I just recieved mine from KoA. I have to say it's a sweet sword. Perfect balance and super sharp. I own a lot of different swords, but I have to say that this is one of the best. I highly recommend this sword to anyone who is looking for a saber. My new favorite sword.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2010 14:03:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2010 1:13:01 GMT
Thant's great, I'm glad you like it! Mine is still one of my favorites and has more bottle time than anything else I own.
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) I am getting more use to the feel of the blade and really enjoy the handling. It is a bit more heavy in handling than the 1906 Ames sword, but it is more substantial too and slices nicely with the current blade balance. I love it's simple look and how the grip reminds me of the 1796 L.S.
