Marc Ridgeway
Member
Retired Global Moderator
"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
Posts: 3,122
|
Post by Marc Ridgeway on Feb 3, 2009 16:00:04 GMT
[ Absolutely false. A proper tsuka should slide in and off the nakago with minor resistance. Hence the need to only tap against your hand to dislodge the nakago or tap against the kashira to put it back in and line up the mekugi-ana. I have to disagree and must ask you for a reference for your absolute statement. While one should never attempt to use a sword without mekugi, proper friction fit does indeed mean that the tsuka should be snugly affixed without relying on mekugi... For quick reference I offer this thread www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92514&page=2Also if tsuka should slide on and off by hand, what did the Japanese use nakago nuki for?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2009 16:15:41 GMT
[ Absolutely false. A proper tsuka should slide in and off the nakago with minor resistance. Hence the need to only tap against your hand to dislodge the nakago or tap against the kashira to put it back in and line up the mekugi-ana. I have to disagree and must ask you for a reference for your absolute statement. While one should never attempt to use a sword without mekugi, proper friction fit does indeed mean that the tsuka should be snugly affixed without relying on mekugi... For quick reference I offer this thread www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92514&page=2Also if tsuka should slide on and off by hand, what did the Japanese use nakago nuki for? Marc, thank you for the additional info and link (going to read it as soon as I edit my post). It was just the part about the peg being there for "added" security. It's an integral part. It just doesn't sound even remotely safe to think about swinging a sword with even moderate speed without the peg in. Friction fitting or not, the sword isn't meant to function without it.
|
|
Marc Ridgeway
Member
Retired Global Moderator
"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
Posts: 3,122
|
Post by Marc Ridgeway on Feb 3, 2009 16:31:51 GMT
It was just the part about the peg being there for "added" security. It's an integral part. It just doesn't sound even remotely safe to think about swinging a sword with even moderate speed without the peg in. Friction fitting or not, the sword isn't meant to function without it. Ceratinly I agree there And its possible I am mistaken as well..everything we know is just something we heard from someone else...which is why I offered a reference In this case the info came from Keith Larman and Carlo... so it seems pretty reliable... I am by no means an expert , and am often wrong...hence the request for a reference ..if I can be shown to be wrong I will gladly admit it and be thankful for the knowledge
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2009 16:50:11 GMT
Marc, thank you again for the link. This is always fascinating stuff learning more about katana in general. After reading it though, it seems that it's more about checking the tsuka so that it shouldn't be loose and a quality check to make sure the snugness isn't from the mekugi. Not about the tsuka being able to hold the blade in place (besides pointing generally up) without mekugi. And nakago nuki? I'm pretty sure I am wrong on this and hopefully, you can also elaborate on this further. Since I believe that a good tsuka should be just "friction" fit and snug but not require any force to get on, the whole nakago nuki thing does muck things up. Don't know enough about wood but if something caused the tsuka to expand (moisture?), it would require some persuasion to be removed. And that would require the nakago nuki? ;D
|
|
Marc Ridgeway
Member
Retired Global Moderator
"The best cost less when you buy it the first time." - Papabear
Posts: 3,122
|
Post by Marc Ridgeway on Feb 3, 2009 17:08:29 GMT
Marc, thank you again for the link. This is always fascinating stuff learning more about katana in general. After reading it though, it seems that it's more about checking the tsuka so that it shouldn't be loose and a quality check to make sure the snugness isn't from the mekugi. Not about the tsuka being able to hold the blade in place (besides pointing generally up) without mekugi. And nakago nuki? I'm pretty sure I am wrong on this and hopefully, you can also elaborate on this further. Since I believe that a good tsuka should be just "friction" fit and snug but not require any force to get on, the whole nakago nuki thing does muck things up. Don't know enough about wood but if something caused the tsuka to expand (moisture?), it would require some persuasion to be removed. And that would require the nakago nuki? ;D I was referring specifically to certain posts in the thread such as and Nakago-Nuki were used to remove tsuka ... humidity is certainly a factor in overly tight tsuka... but it is my opinion that friction fit means just that .... friction fit... the tsuka will be snug on the nakago ...aided by either file marks ...or rust... and by exacting tolerences... I still welcome any references that say otherwise... yes I've seen the advice on tsuka removal to hold the tsuka and hit your wrist... but in somewherearound 100 production katana , several antiques , and several customs I have NEVER seen that work.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2009 17:16:32 GMT
Marc, thank you again for the link. This is always fascinating stuff learning more about katana in general. After reading it though, it seems that it's more about checking the tsuka so that it shouldn't be loose and a quality check to make sure the snugness isn't from the mekugi. Not about the tsuka being able to hold the blade in place (besides pointing generally up) without mekugi. And nakago nuki? I'm pretty sure I am wrong on this and hopefully, you can also elaborate on this further. Since I believe that a good tsuka should be just "friction" fit and snug but not require any force to get on, the whole nakago nuki thing does muck things up. Don't know enough about wood but if something caused the tsuka to expand (moisture?), it would require some persuasion to be removed. And that would require the nakago nuki? ;D I was referring specifically to certain posts in the thread such as and Nakago-Nuki were used to remove tsuka ... humidity is certainly a factor in overly tight tsuka... but it is my opinion that friction fit means just that .... friction fit... the tsuka will be snug on the nakago ...aided by either file marks ...or rust... and by exacting tolerences... I still welcome any references that say otherwise... yes I've seen the advice on tsuka removal to hold the tsuka and hit your wrist... but in somewherearound 100 production katana , several antiques , and several customs I have NEVER seen that work. There should be a :thumbs up: emoticon here. And I do need to invest in a nakago nuki or some kind of soft material mallet since both of my production swords seem "glued" on.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2009 18:03:02 GMT
Hmmm... logic tells me that if a blade is easy to remove, it won't take more force to have it flying out of the tsuka than it takes to remove with your hands. And a straight tang is easier removed than a curved tang.
A perfect fit tsuka like you describe is only present on high end production swords or a nihonto. On a cheap sword I wouldn't rely on the tsuka to hold the blade. That's why I take no chances when it comes to menuki and use the best.
|
|
slav
Member
Senior Forumite
Katsujin No Ken
Posts: 4,457
|
Post by slav on Feb 3, 2009 18:16:15 GMT
Vtolds,
Some chopsticks are okay to use for mekugi, but they have to be of the harder (and darker) outer meat of the bamboo. The right kind are harder to find, and you have to know what you are looking for. The ones you linked are too soft and would be dangerous. If you don't know what I mean, then I would suggest avoiding chopsticks entirely.
Delrin is a great alternative to bamboo, and can be had very cheaply. I bought two 1-foot rods of 1/4" dia. black delrin for under $4.00 on eBay about a year ago, and still have plenty to go.
Also, member Katanado apparently makes splendid mekugi.
Hope this helps.
|
|
|
Post by genocideseth on Feb 4, 2009 0:23:04 GMT
Well, as far as what I said goes...
I never said a Katana should be used without the Mekugi, I just said that the tsuka should be able to hold the blade enough for use. I would in no way recommend a use of a katana without a mekugi. That would be just too risky.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2009 16:27:42 GMT
SOM has(or had) mekugi for cheap. Or you can make your own from Japanese bamboo knitting needles found at Michales(or other craft stores). They come in different sizes in diameter and sell for under 10.00 for two or so 9'' sticks. They also help with sageo tying. I dont know why I didn't look at SOM for them, they have them for 10 dollars for 10. I bought 10 of them, and a set of seppa for 5 dollars. Plus you add on the huge 12 dollars shipping, minus my SBG discount of 5% it comes out too $26.47. The shipping kind of sucks, because I live relatively close to SOM. you get +1 bTW
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2009 17:50:50 GMT
Also a sword with two mekugi without the second ana sunk harmonically with the first is far more dangerous than a single mekugi. Just about every sword really only needs one mekugi because the tsuka should indeed be friction fit. The mekugi is important as it pulls the whole assembly together making all the elements and components into one rock solid weapon. I know of one guy who bought a cheap "battle ready katana" and was cutting with it. The second ana was so badly sunk that the whole assembly came apart as he made his cut.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 6:30:53 GMT
SOM should consider options for shipping methods....I hate UPS.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2009 8:47:32 GMT
Tell me about it. 10.95 shipping for seppa and habaki! No thanks!
Aside from that. I have noticed that the bamboo chopsticks (round) made in Vietnam are pretty tough. They have nice fiber like those found in the meguki. For 99cents a pack you can find some pretty good pieces. It's just a matter of finding those with the darker patches in the middle. Those are the really tough ones. Heck I had hard time sawing them!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2009 0:02:26 GMT
|
|