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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2009 15:10:34 GMT
Hi Chris. Yeah I am familiar with the English Warbow website. I use to frequent their forum when they had one. I posted some video there and the guys there helped me refine my draw technique to make it more suitable to a warbow. Too bad they took the forum down for legal reasons.
It took good deal of training for me to get up to 120# from 100#. There is an issue of diminishing returns with any training. I think I am near my genetic limit. There are plenty of guys out there who are naturally stronger then me who would be able to pull much heavier draw weights with training.
I suspect that the stats would line up like this in a large sample of people who train to pull heavy bows. 80% of men capable of pulling 100# 50% of men capable of pulling 120# 20% of men capable of pulling 140# 10% of men capable of pulling 150# 3% of men capable of pulling 160# 1% of men capable of pulling 170# and over
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2009 3:23:58 GMT
I've been known to lob a few arrows down range. My tool of choice is a 60-65lb long bow. I've shot up to 110lbs... although I must say its not very enjoyable for me at that draw weight.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2009 4:18:18 GMT
It does start to hurt after a while doesn't it? Some of the English Warbow guys have two bows. One is their 'training bow' or a bow they don't feel 100 percent comfortable with and the other is of a smaller draw weight (maybe only 20 pounds lighter). Train on the big one, shoot on the little one. I'd do this if it weren't for the money...
Tsafa: They closed the forum for legal reasons? Any idea why?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2009 14:58:54 GMT
They are based in the UK so I don't know exactly what legal concerns they had. That is however the reason they gave for closing the forum.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2009 17:54:05 GMT
One of my friends who is a professional bowyer draws a 180 lb long bow but the guy is built like a brick semprini house and has been doing archery since he could walk. Any time you shoot a bow you should be drawing down with your back muscles, that is the truest way to shoot any bow. I want a hun recurve which can shoot close to the same distance as a longbow. Or a bamboo back osage orange lonbow, what a tasty treat that would be.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 3:49:29 GMT
Hi Chris. Yeah I am familiar with the English Warbow website. I use to frequent their forum when they had one. I posted some video there and the guys there helped me refine my draw technique to make it more suitable to a warbow. Too bad they took the forum down for legal reasons. It took good deal of training for me to get up to 120# from 100#. There is an issue of diminishing returns with any training. I think I am near my genetic limit. There are plenty of guys out there who are naturally stronger then me who would be able to pull much heavier draw weights with training. I suspect that the stats would line up like this in a large sample of people who train to pull heavy bows. 80% of men capable of pulling 100# 50% of men capable of pulling 120# 20% of men capable of pulling 140# 10% of men capable of pulling 150# 3% of men capable of pulling 160# 1% of men capable of pulling 170# and over I would suspect the number of people who can pull a given weight is much higher. If I can pull 100Lbs for a couple dozen shots, then most people can with proper technique. It's not exactly comfortable, like taking a PT Test for the army and leaves me just as sore for just as long afterwards, but I can do it. 80Lbs for a compound hunting bow? By God! that's got to impart some real power on the arrow...! I have long since forgotten the equations, but a single pulley should, what? Double the power of the pull? Gad! I must admit I've never seen a compound that strong. 30-45Lbs is what I usually find...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2009 19:18:22 GMT
You not compare a compound bow to a war bow my compound bow has a 60-70lb draw weight but has a 75% letoff so you could hold it drawn all day LOL as for a war bow you need one strong arm i seen a show once that said that Welsh bow men has deformed sholders as a result of the bows
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2009 23:24:03 GMT
It might be better to say that the muscles of Archers were 'over-developed' rather than deformed. Are body builders' muscles deformed? Nope!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2009 1:30:36 GMT
I think it was the sholder and arm bones that were damaged and strained from over use they were not as well fed or as healthy as body builders . yes when i said deformed what would be wrong word to use
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2009 4:51:49 GMT
A few things have been mentioned since I looked here last. First, Aceltone is right on the function of the pulleys on modern bows. They are not there to increase power, you still have to use 80 lbs of force to pull back an 80 lb bow. Once you bring it back past a certain point the pulley allows for a "let off". It now only takes about 20 lbs of force to hold the string back and aim. Once you let go of the string and it moves forward a little, the force goes back up to 80 lbs.
As you start to increase the weight, past 100 lbs you will find less and less people can build up to that level. Its no big deal going from 60 to 70 lbs, 70 to 80, 80 to 90... but once you go over the 100 lb mark you will find a steep decrease from 100 to 105. More of a decrease from 105 to 110. Even more at the 115 and 120 mark.
Most people start drawing the sting back less and less as the draw weight gets heavier. You loose 6 % of draw-weight for every inch you under-draw. This has a double negative effect because you not only loose the force but you decrease the distance over which the force is being applied. You are better of using a lighter bow that you can get a full draw on. The full draw will push the arrow over a longer distance. It like having a gun with a longer barrel. The same caliber bullet will go farther in a rifle vs a pistol because the force is being applied over a longer distance.
As far as archers developing what appear to be deformations, I believe this is the effect of continues unbalanced tension on the body. Archers normally draw with the same hand based on which is their dominant eye. The shoulder holding the bow forward builds up bone mass and muscle, while the side pulling the string back develops muscles and bone mass in the upper back. These leads to an abnormal appearance because it is unbalanced. The build up is quite natural for the body though. The body only builds up what it needs.
Back in college my friend's sister worked for an bone doctor. When he met us and learned that we were serious strength athletes he asked if he could take some x-rays of our joints for personal research. The x-rays showed how our knee joints had build up more bone mass to handed the 400 plus lbs we were squating. Most people have rounded bones, ours had built up so much mass that they had practically squared off to handle the extra weight. This is not abnormal, but a normal response.
The bone buildup remains obvious through out my whole body as I have been lifting heavy for 20 years. I do not appear deformed however because the buildup is even through out my body. The worst thing is when you build up one side and not the other, because that really changes the body shape.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2009 6:28:46 GMT
Interesting stuff Tsafa. But what of the many Warbow archers in England pulling around 130-180 pounds today? Do we have any period sources (By Ascham or the like) who were aquainted with archers that say something about deformities in the casual appearance of archers throughout the hayday of the Warbow?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2009 19:12:17 GMT
At my home in California, I have a 38lb olympic-style rebend longbow. At this point, I forget what wood it's made out of, but it's pretty nice. I use carbon fiber arrows, all with target tips... for now. It's a very enjoyable bow, and as for arm protection mentioned earlier in this thread, I do have an archery-specific arm guard, and one of those leather finger pad things. Can't imagine what my arm and fingers would look like after a serious day of archery without them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2009 16:16:40 GMT
Interesting stuff Tsafa. But what of the many Warbow archers in England pulling around 130-180 pounds today? Do we have any period sources (By Ascham or the like) who were aquainted with archers that say something about deformities in the casual appearance of archers throughout the hayday of the Warbow? The deformations are evidenced from the skeletons found on the Mary Rose that sank in 1545. This is the primary source for what we know about the bone spurrs of the archers and the draw-weight of warbows. There were a large cache of warbows found on the Mary Rose. The skeletons showed a large buildup of bone in the right left shoulder and deep tendon grooves in the upper back. Most modern archers that draw heavy bows, like myself, spend a lot of time in the gym so the at bone buildup is more even.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2009 7:44:17 GMT
Interesting stuff Tsafa. But what of the many Warbow archers in England pulling around 130-180 pounds today? Do we have any period sources (By Ascham or the like) who were aquainted with archers that say something about deformities in the casual appearance of archers throughout the hayday of the Warbow? The deformations are evidenced from the skeletons found on the Mary Rose that sank in 1545. This is the primary source for what we know about the bone spurrs of the archers and the draw-weight of warbows. There were a large cache of warbows found on the Mary Rose. The skeletons showed a large buildup of bone in the right left shoulder and deep tendon grooves in the upper back. Most modern archers that draw heavy bows, like myself, spend a lot of time in the gym so the at bone buildup is more even. Yes, the Mary Rose is a treasure trove of information regarding things Warbow related. To word my question differently: were these 'deformations' of Warbow archers visible while they were alive? Were there several thousand Quasimodo's strolling around the French countryside in the 100 years war? The only source I've heard of that describes archers (I believe it was an account of Archers with the black prince in spain?) says that they had rather muscular arms? Nothing mutatious (yup, made that word up ;D )
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2009 23:07:03 GMT
i have a couple. the bottom one is my 6 year old sons 20 pounder. i will be getting him another and giving it to my 4 year old girl. the next is a 100 pound flat bow( think it is back to about 90 as it has had a lot of use, next 60 pound , then my favorite is the 100 pound d bow. they are all self bows made from a single piece of wood (not laminated) never leave your bows strung when not in use. it will lower the poundage and cause a set
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