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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2008 17:28:47 GMT
Ok all this weather and everyone else at the forge has set the bug in me, so I have been forging and video taping my progress on a Hira Zukuri katana. Now I am not the best at video taping but I actually think this turned out better than I had expected. And I know some of you will say hey he is forging into the black heat, nope just the lighting makes it look like I am but it is still red heat. The blade is W-2 from Don Hanson ( I love this stuff Don ). It looks a little thick and it is, as is wide. The blade as I get near the mune machi will be just under 3/8" and right now the width between the mune machi and ha machi is 1 3/4" the total blade length is 32". I was not sure on my total demensions so I forged big and can file it down to the right size after forging. And sorry if it gets boring at some points but I like it. All in All this has been fun my arm is killing me and I have used two bottles of propane so far. Here is the link to the first of 5 videos I did . Let me know if is sucks or you like it?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 2:06:50 GMT
Awesome stuff John, but I already told you that. I finally got to look through all of them...looks nice =). MUCH cleaner than my forging. I need to get me one of those Japanese cutler's hammers for sure. Funny thing was as you were forging the bevels...I recognized the 'hockey stick' lol. Too bad my transitions from the beveled to unbeveled portion of the blade aren't so clean as I work lol.
Also, for those of you that want to see the video in high resolution, click here:
Cris
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 6:15:28 GMT
Great videos and you seem to know what you are doing. Cant wait to see more!
PS: Do you have any tips on how to make bevels, I'we been trying to forge them too, but I get it in only on side and the other side gets round?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 6:22:01 GMT
Great videos and you seem to know what you are doing. Cant wait to see more! PS: Do you have any tips on how to make bevels, I'we been trying to forge them too, but I get it in only on side and the other side gets round? The best advice either of us could give is practice. But, for more specific advice (and probably more helpful in your eyes =D), just pay INCREDIBLY close attention to your hammer angle, hammer placement, and your edge angle and placement on the anvil. One wrong roll of the blade onto the shinogi ji (anvil side) while forging out one side will totally round it out. It's funny, I've found that my anvil side always comes out more crisp and clean than my hammer side lol, so I've got to flip it over often to ruin them both equally =p. More seriously, flipping the work over is a total necessity for evenness of the bevels. I see John likes to work on the face of his anvil all the time, but for beveling I tend to work on the edge of mine so my hammer lands correctly without dinging up my anvil face. Anyhow, don't know if any of that helps...perhaps Johns answers will be a bit more enlightening =). Cris
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Dec 15, 2008 17:17:44 GMT
Never heard of W2 for a sword length piece before. Whatever works for you I guess.
Why on Earth do you dunk your hammer, anyhow? And what are you dunking it in?
Can't wait to see the finished work. If the pic on you website slideshow is anything to go by, it should look smashing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 18:00:47 GMT
W-2 makes a good Japanese style blade, good water hardening steel. And is fairly fogiving while forging.
The reason I dunk my hammer, it's called wet forging and helps keep the scale down, the water turns to steam when the hot steel touches the water and blasts the scale off the steel. It makes a loud popping noise and if you do not have heavey clothes on that are flame resistant it burns like crap.
Hope this helped out.
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Dec 15, 2008 21:12:30 GMT
W2 does give a nice hamon, I guess. I used it for that DH bowie I posted not long ago. It was indeed suprisingly forgiving to forge. Less so to harden, I must say!
Do you get excess scale with that gas forge of yours? Is that why you use that technique? With my old coke fired beast I rarely get scale at all. Just put the steel a couple of inches above the tuyere and it stays nice and clean all day long. I had heard that gas forges produce more scale than a solid fuel device, but havnt had any experience with them, so can't say.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2008 21:51:57 GMT
W2 does give a nice hamon, I guess. I used it for that DH bowie I posted not long ago. It was indeed suprisingly forgiving to forge. Less so to harden, I must say! Do you get excess scale with that gas forge of yours? Is that why you use that technique? With my old coke fired beast I rarely get scale at all. Just put the steel a couple of inches above the tuyere and it stays nice and clean all day long. I had heard that gas forges produce more scale than a solid fuel device, but havnt had any experience with them, so can't say. Even my charcoal forge gives me reasonable amounts of scale, and that's with keeping the work at least 4" above the tuyer. I wet forge also, and the difference in my work is substantial to when I wasn't using the technique. The only thing I do different than John does, is use a wet wire brush to go over the heated area to remove scale that forms when the work is removed from the heat. I do also use a wet hammer and anvil though. How is it your steel is staying so clean Matt? Mine doesn't form scale in the forge, but it does as soon as it's removed. Cris
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Post by Matt993f.o.d on Dec 15, 2008 22:41:24 GMT
I am guessing that you forge outdoors, Cris? More than likely the ambient light outdoors is bright enough that you are mildly underestimating the temperature of the piece, so that excess scale forms when the piece is exposed to air. That is just a guess, mind.
My shop is deep in the shade, with what I would describe as sufficient lighting. Heats below a mid orange range don't produce too much scale in my shop.
Furthemore, I burn coke beans, which give a nice reducing atmosphere for the stock. Perhaps not QUITE as reducing as charcoal, but the jury is out with regards to that one (from what I have read, at least). At most it only needs a little bit of wire brushing to be clean as a whistle once removed from the fire.
If you are heating to high heats, such as when forging mild steel, you can (if you are deft with the tools) wire brush twice. Once when the stock is initially removed, and once after some forging, once the piece has reached the cherry red range when no more scale should form. You can then perform the fine shaping work that is so much easier in these cooler ranges. I have great results with this on my decorative work, but I don't really need to use it on the carbon steel, as the temperature range generally used is that little bit cooler that this isnt practicable, or necessary.
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Post by Matthew Stagmer on Dec 15, 2008 23:09:38 GMT
Hey John. Sence you are close you should try to make it to my Hammer-In this year. It will be the weekend before Easter. I dont have the site up yet, but we will be doing a few smelts and alot of katana work.
fireandbrimstone.com
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 1:25:38 GMT
Where in MD are you? And just give me a time and place and I will be there. And thanks
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 1:35:43 GMT
Oh one more thing about wet forging I keep my hammer in the water as japanese hammers tend to be loose in the fit area and the water keeps it nice and tight.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 5:09:27 GMT
John, looking good. Welcome too by the way Good to see you finally taking the big step
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 12:31:40 GMT
Thanks Sam
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 22:50:49 GMT
Sure wish I could get just a HAIR more out of this 5/8ths round W2 I have .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2008 1:45:02 GMT
Well I am done with the rough forging of the Hira Zukuri katana, and I must say I am happy with the results. Though the blade is about a 1/4 of an inch wider than I wanted, but I can remove steel and reforge the bevels. The blade itself, at the thickest point the mune machi is 5/16, and I will be making that a Itch thinner after the rough filing. But for now I need to get the width of the blade down to a manageable size as she is quite the beast and has some weight to her. And the OVL is 32 inches with a nakasa of 27 inches. I hope So let me know what you think.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2008 1:46:03 GMT
Just the sori thing I mentioned on Don's forums. That thing is gonna be a beast...even with the fat trimmed =).
Can't wait to see how it looks post heat treat!
Cris
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2008 3:24:32 GMT
Are you going to grind/file off the excess?!??!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2008 5:01:47 GMT
Actually Sam I am going to grind away most of the fat and then reforge the blade to make it closer to my specs.
I wish I had a press as I would not be doing all this work.
And I should have started with a smaller piece I could have forged it out more.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2008 23:41:18 GMT
Why don't you just keep forging it to shape the rest of the way?
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