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Post by n7paladin on May 26, 2024 15:45:13 GMT
Greetings fellow sword enthusiasts.
Do you know any reliable vendor/maker of good quality scabbards in Europe?
I know the life of European sword collectors is not easy but while I do manage, somehow, to find good swords I’m currently having a lot of problems in getting scabbards.
The few vendors I find have basically only leather scabbards, no wooden ones, and to be honest those scabbards didn’t look very good.
I’m actually interested in scabbards for all kind of European swords since so far none of my European swords (from arming sword to side swords) has a scabbard so I’m looking for a reliable vendor/maker that make high quality scabbards at least for the favorite swords in my collection.
Before wasting money and time getting a scabbard that would most likely disappoint me, I thought to ask you.
Thank You very much for your help.
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Post by mrstabby on May 26, 2024 19:32:51 GMT
Honestly scabbards alone is a custom job if you want something worthwhile. I have not yet seen anyone selling a scabbard that wasn't bespoke. In europe there aren't many, and it's gonna cost quite a bit of money. I know there was someone making scabbards for around 300 bucks, but I don't remember who it was or if it was europe. Most will be US unfortunately which will be expensive++ (you can add around 50% in taxes and customs) but definately doable. You could try contacting some european based swordmakers if they would make a lone scabbard, like wulflund (others can probably spell out more candidates).
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,704
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Post by stormmaster on May 26, 2024 21:40:43 GMT
what are u looking to pay?
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Post by n7paladin on May 27, 2024 12:28:36 GMT
Honestly scabbards alone is a custom job if you want something worthwhile. I have not yet seen anyone selling a scabbard that wasn't bespoke. In europe there aren't many, and it's gonna cost quite a bit of money. I know there was someone making scabbards for around 300 bucks, but I don't remember who it was or if it was europe. Most will be US unfortunately which will be expensive++ (you can add around 50% in taxes and customs) but definately doable. You could try contacting some european based swordmakers if they would make a lone scabbard, like wulflund (others can probably spell out more candidates). Yes, I was talking about "custom jobs" made on the specifics of a given sword. I know in the past Del Tin offered the option to add a scabbard to ordered swords but Mr. Fulvio just confirmed me he no longer offers scabbards. I know Arma Bohemia has several scabbards in their catalogue. I had mixed experiences with them: some pieces were decent while other did disappointed me however the scabbard that came with a falchion was not bad. The problem is communicating with them can be very slow (they don't ignore it to the point of not answering but some time you have to insist). They told me they don't make wooden scabbards for swords they don't have at hand but for only leather ones. I tried to arrange for a scabbard to test but things are got so slow (some times they don't respond, other times they say they are not in office and they will be back in a couple of weeks) to the point of being a little stressing. Beside I noticed they are not very efficient in storing items and with packages. The couple of swords I ordered from them arrived with many black spots (it wasn't difficult to remove them with some polishing) and no oil applied on the blade. One of the swords arrived with a bent tip but with my surprise I was able to fix it. In the end expect for a one-handed war hammer all the products I bought from them were overpriced for the quality I got; not to mention in order to pay via PayPal they want me to cover the "fees" which it would even be acceptable if they didn't a mess with conversion from EUR to their currency causing me to pay those fees twice each time. I'll check Wulfund: thanks for the advice. As for ordering from US. Up to about 2015 I bought regularly from US. Sure, I had to pay the shipping and the customs but overall it wasn't that much. It was the VAT (which I should have paid even if I bought within EU) plus a 10%. Considering things usually cost less in the US than EU it was still a favorable trade. Then customs because a nightmare, with the various carriers doing the work of calculating customs and the costs doubled. Apparently custom officers are pleased to let the carrier companies deal with the matter and they basically double the costs. If you tried to complain, they then go to their friends in the customs and order to hold the package for a never-ending inspection. It happened to me in 2019 after the trade agreement between EU and Japan entered in force and they asked for certain fees they couldn't have asked. Long story short: after a couple of weeks I had to tell the local customs I was about to go to prosecutor office to report their violations and the very next day they released my package. Oh and there wasn't a sword in the package but mere scale models.
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Post by n7paladin on May 27, 2024 12:32:27 GMT
what are u looking to pay? Considering good quality scabbards are obviously not cheap, I decided to get them only for the "best" among my favorite swords. So let's say, if the scabbard is well made, I can go with the 300-400 €/$ (there isn't a huge difference between the two currencies, after all) but I'm willing to go a bit further if the scabbard is really good.
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Post by mrstabby on May 27, 2024 14:01:32 GMT
Honestly that's kinda low for a custom scabbard, I have seen most of them take over 1000 for a custom scabbard with colouring and stampings, the 300€/$ I mentioned was very barebones, just a wood core with leather, nothing fancy. Of course you can get cheaper on etsy, but who knows what you'll get there in the end. EDIT: That's likely why many have built their own in the lower price segment. Unless you get one that is super elaborate you can do better yourself. Western working hours are not cheap, the materials more so. Wulfund say theirs is 398€. You will also have to send out the sword or live wit some fit issues.
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Post by n7paladin on May 27, 2024 17:07:49 GMT
Honestly that's kinda low for a custom scabbard, I have seen most of them take over 1000 for a custom scabbard with colouring and stampings, the 300€/$ I mentioned was very barebones, just a wood core with leather, nothing fancy. Of course you can get cheaper on etsy, but who knows what you'll get there in the end. EDIT: That's likely why many have built their own in the lower price segment. Unless you get one that is super elaborate you can do better yourself. Western working hours are not cheap, the materials more so. Wulfund say theirs is 398€. You will also have to send out the sword or live wit some fit issues.
I'm willing to pay more that 300 if the scabbard is a very good quality one. In all frankness if I'm not sure the end result would be of a high quality I don't feel "gambling" 1000. I would also prefer to not send the sword: would be possible to give them precise measurements of the swords instead? Sending the sword is rather problematic, not for the cost itself but for the fact the less my prized sword travel with carriers across the continent, the better. The way they handle things is terrifying. Also, I'd prefer to avoid places like Etsy. I know some people got good experiences there but I also know it is not unknown to run into disappointments there.
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Post by mrstabby on May 27, 2024 17:35:59 GMT
Honestly that's kinda low for a custom scabbard, I have seen most of them take over 1000 for a custom scabbard with colouring and stampings, the 300€/$ I mentioned was very barebones, just a wood core with leather, nothing fancy. Of course you can get cheaper on etsy, but who knows what you'll get there in the end. EDIT: That's likely why many have built their own in the lower price segment. Unless you get one that is super elaborate you can do better yourself. Western working hours are not cheap, the materials more so. Wulfund say theirs is 398€. You will also have to send out the sword or live wit some fit issues.
I'm willing to pay more that 300 if the scabbard is a very good quality one. In all frankness if I'm not sure the end result would be of a high quality I don't feel "gambling" 1000. I would also prefer to not send the sword: would be possible to give them precise measurements of the swords instead? Sending the sword is rather problematic, not for the cost itself but for the fact the less my prized sword travel with carriers across the continent, the better. The way they handle things is terrifying. Also, I'd prefer to avoid places like Etsy. I know some people got good experiences there but I also know it is not unknown to run into disappointments there. You'll have to talk to the makers, some do it with measurments only, many won't. It's just you can't expect perfect fit without the maker having access to the sword and it's a gamble for them if their work isn't up to snuff. Theorethically there could be one small portion of the blade you did not measure a bit thicker and you have a sticking scabbard unless the maker makes it a bit more loose than normal.
If you want something made in Europe/the US you will have to pay a lot for the work hours. I think I talked to DBK it takes a few weeks to finish a more ornate scabbard, that's a lot of hours. Materials are like 400$, the rest is the work, the craftsmanship, the experience.
EDIT: you can look up the names from the threaqd I linked in the post above to see what you get. Something like this is what you can expect for 300-400$, 450-550 after customs. The Wulfund ones look pretty much the same, but I was only able to find the german version of the custom woodcore scabbard site. I don't trust their price only being 398 not accounting for size, I think it would vary.
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Post by n7paladin on May 28, 2024 17:53:41 GMT
I'm willing to pay more that 300 if the scabbard is a very good quality one. In all frankness if I'm not sure the end result would be of a high quality I don't feel "gambling" 1000. I would also prefer to not send the sword: would be possible to give them precise measurements of the swords instead? Sending the sword is rather problematic, not for the cost itself but for the fact the less my prized sword travel with carriers across the continent, the better. The way they handle things is terrifying. Also, I'd prefer to avoid places like Etsy. I know some people got good experiences there but I also know it is not unknown to run into disappointments there. You'll have to talk to the makers, some do it with measurments only, many won't. It's just you can't expect perfect fit without the maker having access to the sword and it's a gamble for them if their work isn't up to snuff. Theorethically there could be one small portion of the blade you did not measure a bit thicker and you have a sticking scabbard unless the maker makes it a bit more loose than normal.
If you want something made in Europe/the US you will have to pay a lot for the work hours. I think I talked to DBK it takes a few weeks to finish a more ornate scabbard, that's a lot of hours. Materials are like 400$, the rest is the work, the craftsmanship, the experience.
EDIT: you can look up the names from the threaqd I linked in the post above to see what you get. Something like this is what you can expect for 300-400$, 450-550 after customs. The Wulfund ones look pretty much the same, but I was only able to find the german version of the custom woodcore scabbard site. I don't trust their price only being 398 not accounting for size, I think it would vary.
Thanks for the links. I gave a look at the Wulfund one and apparently it looks like a standard scabbard without too much decorations but if it were a good one it could at least serve some of the most "simple" swords. As for the price range, I can tell in Czech Republic things seem to cost less than in other EU countries and not just swords. You mentioned Albion. I would be very glad if I had even the chance to order from them. I think a scabbard shouldn't run into problems with customs like swords do but would Albion actually make a scabbard for a sword that has not been bought from them? I heard in the past Albion had an "EU store" but all my recent searches seem to suggest it no longer exists. I think owning an Albion sword would be a dream that will never come true because I know having a sword going trough EU customs is currently a recipe for a nightmare.
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Post by bwaze on May 28, 2024 18:16:28 GMT
Albion doesn't make scabbards. In EU your best bet with their swords is... Tod's Workshop from UK, and you pay both UK and EU taxes, due to complete and utterly delightful thing called Brexit. But you often don't have to send your sword, Tod already has templates for most of Albions (but not all) so it should fit. linkhttps://todsworkshop.com/collections/historical-sword-scabbardsAlbion had an EU store, but it closed in 2015.
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Post by mrstabby on May 28, 2024 18:23:22 GMT
I think Albion stopped sale in the EU due to rentability, the cost of shipping being to high and demand too low, so I am not even sure if they'd do direct sales. Either way the waiting list is about 2 years or more and the lowest price is around 900$, making them very, very expensive in the EU after customs and tax. All Albions come without scabbards, they don't do scabbards at all, therefore the "big" demand for high quality Albion scabbard makers. Swords and customs are more trouble in some countries where there are restrictions on blades, Italy for example won't let any swords in, even if they are non functional. In germany, austria and others it's only a buerocratic jungle, where the seller NEEDS to put the right papers on the pacage or it gets stuck. Scabbards should not be a problem anywhere, but you have to look up your local laws.
EDIT: @wulfund: They spell it out in the description, the scabbard is 2cm wider than the blade, so it would likely be pretty loose unless you get them to reduce the safety margain or put some spacers in yourself after.
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Post by mrstabby on May 28, 2024 18:32:22 GMT
Albion doesn't make scabbards. In EU your best bet with their swords is... Tod's Workshop from UK, and you pay both UK and EU taxes, due to complete and utterly delightful thing called Brexit. But you often don't have to send your sword, Tod already has templates for most of Albions (but not all) so it should fit. linkhttps://todsworkshop.com/collections/historical-sword-scabbardsAlbion had an EU store, but it closed in 2015. Are Albions specs so tight you can move around the scabbards between same model swords? Honest question. I know it works for Hanwei/Tinker swords to a degree, but my LK Chen for example can't move to another's sheath - but that might be the more complicated guard that goes over the scabbard as well.
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Post by bwaze on May 28, 2024 18:47:25 GMT
I have heard of some issues due to a bit out of spec blades - although blades are CNC milled, they are then hand ground. But I think it's rare, I think Tod makes scabbards a bit oversized in most dimensions, and then relies on blade thickness dimension to actually hold your sword in - so scabbard flexes a bit and grips the blade, but there's still some room around edges.
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Post by n7paladin on Jun 1, 2024 15:59:10 GMT
Albion doesn't make scabbards. In EU your best bet with their swords is... Tod's Workshop from UK, and you pay both UK and EU taxes, due to complete and utterly delightful thing called Brexit. But you often don't have to send your sword, Tod already has templates for most of Albions (but not all) so it should fit. linkhttps://todsworkshop.com/collections/historical-sword-scabbardsAlbion had an EU store, but it closed in 2015. Brexit actually annoyed a lot of persons who usually bought things in UK from continental Europe and vice versa. I used to buy from several UK stores without too much trouble but these days it's painful. The problem is not even paying taxes but the fact some custom offices are so narrow minded to point of looking criminal. If you pay for some "premium" carrier then if you give them what they ask (which is usually at least 50% more of what is legally due) you could even import a fully armed tank listed as "toy" lol but if you are not lucky they can create trouble over nothing. Technically without UK being part of the EU single market customs could hold a package under any reason and you'll had to deal with them. Within the EU single market they basically need a "probable cause" to inspect the package. So unless the package contains explosives lol, they don't have any legitimate reason to hold the package. There is a reason is a single market is considered advantageous to business. However, with scabbards there shouldn't be any problem but with swords themselves rest assured problems will occur. Technically I could try do things formally and request the paperwork for importing that kind of collectibles. Anyway, thanks for the suggestion and for the link.
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Post by n7paladin on Jun 1, 2024 16:25:01 GMT
I think Albion stopped sale in the EU due to rentability, the cost of shipping being to high and demand too low, so I am not even sure if they'd do direct sales. Either way the waiting list is about 2 years or more and the lowest price is around 900$, making them very, very expensive in the EU after customs and tax. All Albions come without scabbards, they don't do scabbards at all, therefore the "big" demand for high quality Albion scabbard makers. Swords and customs are more trouble in some countries where there are restrictions on blades, Italy for example won't let any swords in, even if they are non functional. In germany, austria and others it's only a buerocratic jungle, where the seller NEEDS to put the right papers on the pacage or it gets stuck. Scabbards should not be a problem anywhere, but you have to look up your local laws.
EDIT: @wulfund: They spell it out in the description, the scabbard is 2cm wider than the blade, so it would likely be pretty loose unless you get them to reduce the safety margain or put some spacers in yourself after.
The situation in Italy is complicated. The law itself is vague and while it is forbidden to carry a sword the situation is not so clear when it comes to sell and buy. The Ministry of Interiors said some time ago swords that are not sharp and are either used for collection or "martial arts" can be sold and bought without limitations. Del Tin sells "unsharpened" swords in Italy without problem and the law allows it. People says sharp swords are illegal in Italy but it's entirely not true. There are many collectors of antiquities and most of those swords are sharp. The problem is there is so much red tape sellers simply don't find the procedure worth the trouble and so they sell swords unsharpened. To sell and buy a sharp sword the law requires the seller to be in possession of the same license required to sell firearms (it is a nonsense, I know) and the person who buy it must either posses a license themselves or they just have to go to the local police station and have them record they own a sharp sword. The very first sharp katana I saw in store when I was just a kid (and of course I never thought about buying it) was at local gun store. The law says nothing about sharpening a sword after you bought it unsharp (except not being able to carry it on the street). I know several persons actually asked to law enforcement officers and they all replied "keep it at home, don't bother people and you'll be ok." So, it is possible to even legally buy swords in Italy (it's worth to mention the procedure is less complicated for pieces that have "artistic value" instead, for example, "tactical sword"). The real problem (note the emphasis of the bold) are customs offices that in Italy are widely know for acting in violation of the law. Once a month you can read on the news of some custom officers in Italy arrested under some corruption charges (it's a little less frequent currently). So unless you have contacts with some shipping agent who pays/is paid to keep things smooth you can expect troubles from Italian customs even if you buy action figures. So, yes Italian customs are a nightmare but it's because of the unlawful conduct of several custom officers. They would simply confiscate the sword without hesitation but if you paid for some "premium delivery" service you could even import a RPG and they would turn to other side declaring it is a nerf gun. It's disgusting, I know. If you have a firearms license, you could technically buy an AR-15 in the US and the procedure says all you had to do it to send the documentation to the custom offices. The same should apply to swords: the persons should go to law enforcement agency, tell them they want to buy a sword for their collection and they could either ask for a license or request an authorization for the specific purchase. Long story short: it's illegal to carry a sharp sword around the streets in Italy but under certain circumstances it should be possible to acquire one under the usual annoying red tape. However due to the nature of local custom offices it is virtually impossible to buy anything outside EU without going through annoying troubles of galactic proportions. Sorry for the wall of text, but I have a personal interest in studying laws of various EU countries (as well Union legislation itself) and so I really wanted to share what I learned over the years on this matter.
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Post by mrstabby on Jun 1, 2024 16:58:59 GMT
I have just heard from a few EU-external sellers that Italy has become a no-go zone for sword imports and that even blunt and unusable swords get sent back, Luxembourg and Belgium as well. The only import problems for swords in Austria, Czech Republic or Germany are missing paperwork. Customs only need the content and worth of the package, then there are no more problems (anything bladed has the same customs code and count as "Blankwaffen" in german) - but many EU external sellers don't put the paperwork on the package leading to problems. Austria has literally zero blade laws (except where all weapons are forbidden, like court or festivals), so you technically could run around with a sword - police still might have a look at you though. Germany is more restrictive, but no regulations on buying or owning swords. A handmade custom scabbard could very likely go through as an art object or collectible, but it would again depend on the exact country.
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Post by n7paladin on Jun 2, 2024 14:54:18 GMT
I have just heard from a few EU-external sellers that Italy has become a no-go zone for sword imports and that even blunt and unusable swords get sent back, Luxembourg and Belgium as well. The only import problems for swords in Austria, Czech Republic or Germany are missing paperwork. Customs only need the content and worth of the package, then there are no more problems (anything bladed has the same customs code and count as "Blankwaffen" in german) - but many EU external sellers don't put the paperwork on the package leading to problems. Austria has literally zero blade laws (except where all weapons are forbidden, like court or festivals), so you technically could run around with a sword - police still might have a look at you though. Germany is more restrictive, but no regulations on buying or owning swords. A handmade custom scabbard could very likely go through as an art object or collectible, but it would again depend on the exact country. Sure, it is no-go zone because of how the custom offices act (and which I tried to explain in my wall of text lol). My point was the current situation you describe is the result of an abusive conduct by custom offices. Just think about it: if a person tries to import something illegal, explosive weapons for example, and the custom catch them what happens? The weapons are seized and a criminal prosecution takes place. However most of the times Italian customs confiscate a sword the sword suddenly disappears. If there were a criminal prosecution to conduct the sword should be presented at the trial as proof. Instead someone there, simply take it. Most Chinese made Katana were confiscated that way when they reached Italian customs which is basically theft: some public official stole those items at customs. People could actually contest the customs' claim through the judicial system but nobody is willing to go through such stress for something that is a hobby. Is it logical to forbid the import of a blunt sword where it is legal to sell? That's against any logic and another proof Italian customs are out of control. Still, if someone in Italy wants to obtain the legal authorization for import and customs prevent them from obtain the item, custom officers would face charges themselves. However once again, who is willing to go through all the red tape just for a hobby? Funny thing: while swords are a gray area, crossbows can be purchased in Italy without limitations. So a sword that would require training and proximity to attack someone are more controlled than a crossbow that could easily hit a 100 meters/yards away. So logical lol. The true problem is there should be a uniformed legislation regarding weapons (both cold and firearms) across the whole European Union. I mean, what's the point of having a Union when every member does as it pleases them. Beside people could easily buy from other EU states without customs controls so what's the point of having 27 different legislations on weapons, among other things. Regarding Austria: I always loved it (fond memories of the summers spent there when I was a kid) and now I have another reason to decide to move there one day.
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Post by mrstabby on Jun 2, 2024 15:50:31 GMT
Personally I would not want that. If you wanted to make one law set all the more lenient contries would end up with something too restrictive, and the restrictive countries would be mad because it's too lenient and nobody is happy - just remember how angry people were when the whole lightbulb thing went down, now take this to every single law, weapons, cars, movies, games... You have to know the laws of your country in the end, not that much different in the US.
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Post by willaumep on Jun 3, 2024 11:15:07 GMT
Hello i am in the same boat as you.
After reading "covering the blade" i have come to the conclussion that, making your own scabard is probably the way forward. i am intersted in mostly in the 15th century. So cheap and cheerfull approach of the time kind of make it the parchement two thin planks plus the end bit. and getting the leather dressing and metal part done for me seems to be the best of both word.
Phil
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Post by mrstabby on Jun 3, 2024 11:31:56 GMT
Hello i am in the same boat as you. After reading "covering the blade" i have come to the conclussion that, making your own scabard is probably the way forward. i am intersted in mostly in the 15th century. So cheap and cheerfull approach of the time kind of make it the parchement two thin planks plus the end bit. and getting the leather dressing and metal part done for me seems to be the best of both word. Phil True. The leatherwork (depending on how intricate) and fittings are something not everyone can do, the core only takes minimal tooling. I am looking for fittings as well, so if you find a source, tell me. Best place seems to be etsy, but most are not really what I am looking for, I just want a metal cone, nothing too fancy.
I have been making scabbards trying many different things, so every single one is different - and all are unfinished but they work so far because I can't decide what to try as finish. Haven't decided what to do, been thinking of just painting them in black polyurethane paint to give them some resistance and leave it at that, but I still need some metal fittings. Personally I found carving out the blade dimensions the easiest. Using wet wood on the swords is too risky for my taste (also haven't found a source for the right wood for it to be honest, it works with anything, even 6mm plywood, but you can't do it by hand, you need a press or something). EDIT: For leatherwork you can ask around leathershops, like local manufacturers of backpacks or clothing, they sometimes will do stuff like this just for the challenge (and some extra income).
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