rschuch
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Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
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Post by rschuch on Mar 27, 2024 1:39:03 GMT
I have a concept for a bodice dagger I'd like to see through to fruition. Unfortunately I'm in a small condo and have no tools to speak of. I do have a friend who's a luthier and can help with the handle and scabbard portion of it, and I've located a blank sheet, either copper or brass (whichever will work better), so essentially I have all the materials. I just need someone who can cut the template and sharpen the blade (diamond cross section). Basically I'm envisioning a single piece of brass or copper with a Kris style blade and slab handle of rosewood (or whatever wood looks nice). I at first thought pins to secure the handle but am now thinking just epoxy might be more secure. Might paint red enamel on the metal under the pommel.... I have the template I created. The black areas are the wood, probably 1/8" thick. Brass or copper 1/4" thick. So any suggestions would be appreciated...which metal to use...who I might contact to cut the template and sharpen the blade. If the price is right I may even ask them to do the handle and scabbard part and send them the wood.
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Post by larason2 on Mar 27, 2024 14:14:03 GMT
First question is, are you planning to cut with it, or is it just for display? Copper and brass aren't really knife materials, so any cutting isn't a good idea. Both will bend and break pretty easily under stress. The design looks decorative, but you never know! Is it going to be sharp?
If you're going with copper or brass, you can cut it with a number of easily available saws. For instance, a hack saw. Get the blades meant for cutting soft metals. I routinely cut copper or brass on my band saw, but I never cut pieces so thick as you're contemplating. Once you have the rough shape, you can further refine it with files.
If it was me, I'd get a plate of 1075 from a knife supplier and make it out of that, but that's a whole other animal! You'd need a forge to heat treat it properly. But then you'd have a proper dagger. If you have smiths in your town, once you've shaped it, they could easily heat treat it for you. You could cut it out with a hack saw (but it's going to take a while!), shape it with files, and finish it roughly with sandpaper before heat treat. They call this stock removal. If the blade were steel, but the handle ornaments brass, that would be very nice.
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 849
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Post by rschuch on Mar 27, 2024 15:45:24 GMT
First question is, are you planning to cut with it, or is it just for display? Copper and brass aren't really knife materials, so any cutting isn't a good idea. Both will bend and break pretty easily under stress. The design looks decorative, but you never know! Is it going to be sharp? If you're going with copper or brass, you can cut it with a number of easily available saws. For instance, a hack saw. Get the blades meant for cutting soft metals. I routinely cut copper or brass on my band saw, but I never cut pieces so thick as you're contemplating. Once you have the rough shape, you can further refine it with files. If it was me, I'd get a plate of 1075 from a knife supplier and make it out of that, but that's a whole other animal! You'd need a forge to heat treat it properly. But then you'd have a proper dagger. If you have smiths in your town, once you've shaped it, they could easily heat treat it for you. You could cut it out with a hack saw (but it's going to take a while!), shape it with files, and finish it roughly with sandpaper before heat treat. They call this stock removal. If the blade were steel, but the handle ornaments brass, that would be very nice. I think I found a knife maker here in Deland that might help. But yes, it's mainly decorative, more of a bodice knife/letter opener, not for use everyday, so letter opener sharp is fine., as long as it's pointy. I've seen a lot of them made from brass (I have one actually). Damascus is another possibility, but I'll have to see what the maker suggests if brass isn't a viable option for whatever reason. I'm in a small condo, so loud power tools aren't really going to happen, plus I have no place to put them...no garage. But that IS a cool idea, to have a steel blade with brass or copper instead of the wood...somehow though, the wood adds an organic warm quality to it, and it'll blend into the scabbard better if it's made from the same material. Still on the drawing boards though...trying to keep my options open.
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Post by larason2 on Mar 27, 2024 16:40:42 GMT
Ah, ok. A letter opener made of brass should be ok, but copper might bend at the tip. That being said, there's more options for patination of copper, if you want to go that way. So a steel blade, copper accents on the hilt could work. If you go with copper for the flower, mail it to me and I'll polish it and rokusho it pink for you.
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 849
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Post by rschuch on Mar 27, 2024 17:06:23 GMT
Ah, ok. A letter opener made of brass should be ok, but copper might bend at the tip. That being said, there's more options for patination of copper, if you want to go that way. So a steel blade, copper accents on the hilt could work. If you go with copper for the flower, mail it to me and I'll polish it and rokusho it pink for you. Thanks for the offer! I'm thinking of going with brass though because it's a bit stiffer than copper and the tip is fairly thin. I'm not familiar with rokusho...I imagine that'd look better than red enamel paint! Is it more of a tint?
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 849
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Post by rschuch on Mar 27, 2024 17:52:34 GMT
This was kind of the concept... a cross between a Western boot dagger W77 and a custom rose bodice dagger I saw online. The sculpted rose is way beyond my skill level, plus I think is a bit bulky and a weak point if someone were to drop it. At least with it flat and the edges rounded off I think it would be a bit more durable. Plus easier and cheaper to accomplish. I'm just hoping it doesn't look too much like a clip art rose when it's done.... Attachments:
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Post by larason2 on Mar 27, 2024 18:36:10 GMT
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 849
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Post by rschuch on Mar 27, 2024 19:16:48 GMT
I love the rustic look of that! Essentially the dimensions are 3" x 10" x 1/4" thick. If you want to mess around with it for fun, that's fine! It'll be interesting to see the results. The guy I'm talking with (Chad at Black Hog Knives) doesn't do any engraving or etching, so I'd be on my own for the woodwork, but I'm fine with that. If I can give him the brass sheet and have him cut, polish and shape the blade and give it back, maybe I can send it to you and you can do this to it. Attachments:
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Post by larason2 on Mar 27, 2024 21:32:56 GMT
Haha, ok! What I'll do is a copper plate of just the flower, to see how it turns out. If you like it I'll send it to you! I'll probably try my hand at a little bit of chasing for some of the details, but the surface will be polished with stones as per my usual practice, then I'll try out the patination. You should be able to glue it on or set it into the wood.
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 849
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Post by rschuch on Mar 27, 2024 22:16:46 GMT
Haha, ok! What I'll do is a copper plate of just the flower, to see how it turns out. If you like it I'll send it to you! I'll probably try my hand at a little bit of chasing for some of the details, but the surface will be polished with stones as per my usual practice, then I'll try out the patination. You should be able to glue it on or set it into the wood. Not sure how that would work... There's really only 3 pieces to this knife - the 2 wood slabs on either side glued to the brass template which has a sharpened edge and pointy end. The rose isn't a separate piece. Attachments:
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Post by larason2 on Mar 27, 2024 23:59:49 GMT
There's lots of ways to do it, but what I would do is carve the wood of the space the rose goes on flat on one side. The engraved copper will come with a hollow on the bottom, so you can just glue it on using jeweller's pitch, epoxy, or something along those lines. It will kind of be like a menuki, but just in the same shape of the rose and patinated pink.
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 849
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Post by rschuch on Mar 28, 2024 1:27:18 GMT
There's lots of ways to do it, but what I would do is carve the wood of the space the rose goes on flat on one side. The engraved copper will come with a hollow on the bottom, so you can just glue it on using jeweller's pitch, epoxy, or something along those lines. It will kind of be like a menuki, but just in the same shape of the rose and patinated pink. OK, I'm open! I ordered the brass plate today and will send it to a friend to cut the template, who'll send it to another friend to smooth and shape the blade and put and edge on it. The wood will come after he sends it back to me, so I'll see what you come up with. Will you have two roses (one for each side)? Do you need me to send you a template so it's the right size? The PDF file in my initial post should print 100% but I can mail you something if you don't have a printer.
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Post by larason2 on Mar 28, 2024 5:45:03 GMT
Haha, lets start with one and we'll see if it's ok! I can always make another one. I printed it off on paper so it's the right size, with the box 3 inches, and scribed the copper. Just have to cut it out and file the edges, then I'll start with the tagane!
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 849
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Post by rschuch on Mar 28, 2024 10:45:55 GMT
Thanks so much for offering to help! Very generous and much appreciated! Can't wait to see it!
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 849
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Post by rschuch on Jun 12, 2024 21:14:00 GMT
Some in progress pics. Basic flat template cut by Brian, blade sculpting and smoothing by Steve Lenhardt. Just waiting for another friend Bob to get back from MA so he can do the rosewood handles. Coming along even better than I thought!
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 849
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Post by rschuch on Jun 12, 2024 21:33:13 GMT
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Post by mrstabby on Jun 13, 2024 9:26:09 GMT
What's it made of? Some pics it looks silver some golden.
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 849
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Post by rschuch on Jun 13, 2024 18:49:09 GMT
What's it made of? Some pics it looks silver some golden. Brass. Steve put a decent edge on it...I opened some mail yesterday with it.
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Post by larason2 on Jun 13, 2024 19:17:09 GMT
And here's my end of the bargain! Haha, if you want it! I prepared the copper plate, cut it out, filed it to shape, and I've been chasing and coarse polishing to try to get the shape, but clearly its not quite done. I worked on it for several hours, but then I got distracted by other projects! I think my instinct on how to carve it is good though, so far, most of the grooves look pretty natural. I'll try to find some time to keep working on it in the next couple of days.
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 849
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Post by rschuch on Jun 13, 2024 19:38:39 GMT
A little rough! I appreciate the effort! I'm going to investigate either a patina formula or metal die that will turn it pink. With the surface so rough I don't think the epoxy under the rosewood will have a smooth surface to adhere to.
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