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Post by metinemre on Feb 11, 2024 22:59:28 GMT
Hi guys, I need everyone`s insight.
I never owned a thrust oriented sword. I decided I really want one but I`m super torn between these four.
Ringeck and Fiore being cost effective but I guess I rather get one I will love than trade or sell later.
I think I`m looking for more lively and feels light in the end and maybe even something that feel easy to control by one hand more than the others.
I really like Pearshaped, scent stopper, fish tail designs over the round pommels but ofcourse it doesn`t matter if one will be noticeably better handling and feeling lighter,livelier than the other(s) (when held with one hand) Since most bastard swords or two handers in 35-36inch length with similar POB around 3-3.25 lbs feel ok with two hands.
I read and watched all the videos I could find but still can`t make the decision. It looks like XVII`s will be better cutter than the XVa`s but is it just a tad difference or night and day difference if used to cut? (not water bottles or milk jugs, cutting tatamis)
I kinda am leaning towards Ringeck and Sempach but then $400 difference says buy Ringeck. Is Sempach worth the difference for what I`m looking for?
Thanks for your input.
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Post by fayebarca on Feb 11, 2024 23:19:07 GMT
I think I`m looking for more lively and feels light in the end and maybe even something that feel easy to control by one hand more than the others.
Based on this, I think the Mercenary (or the Squire Line Bastard Sword) might be a better fit for you. I've heard that the Ringeck/Fiore aren't particularly lively to the point that it doesn't feel great to use in one hand, but that that isn't the case for the Mercenary. I think I've also heard that the type XVII (a la the Sempach/Landgraf) isn't a particularly light/lively Oakeshott type. Dunno how Albion's makes of them are, maybe someone can chime in...
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Post by eastman on Feb 12, 2024 0:14:23 GMT
I was in a similar position a few years ago.
The best option, drive to New Glarus to visit Albion and play with the swords on the wall. I did that and knew I was going for the Landgraf and had to decide amongst the XVa models.
I went with a Landgraf and a Ringeck. Both can be handled effectively with 1 hand, but are better with 2. The Ringeck has a very thick blade (8mm+ at the center ridge at the base), so if cutting is important, I think the Landgraf will be a better cutter. The Ringeck blade is thicker than the Damian Sulowski XVa I have, so a little heavier and not quite as lively 1-handed.
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Post by toddstratton1 on Feb 12, 2024 0:14:41 GMT
I think I`m looking for more lively and feels light in the end and maybe even something that feel easy to control by one hand more than the others.
Based on this, I think the Mercenary (or the Squire Line Bastard Sword) might be a better fit for you. I've heard that the Ringeck/Fiore aren't particularly lively to the point that it doesn't feel great to use in one hand, but that that isn't the case for the Mercenary. I think I've also heard that the type XVII (a la the Sempach/Landgraf) isn't a particularly light/lively Oakeshott type. Dunno how Albion's makes of them are, maybe someone can chime in... I had a ringneck and own a landgraf. Both are definitely suited for two handed use, or half swording. But it's not as practical to use one handed except situationally. Though it's not overly cumbersome or hard to handle in one hand that badly. I think the sempach and landgraf beat out the ringneck and fiore, in that they retain better cutting capacity closer to the tip, where as the other two are just a very narrow diamond shaped needle point toward and to the tip of the blade. The Mercenary as you mentioned starts wider and has more width to the tip than the other type 15s and maintains more cutting capacity as a result. But also is more lively as a bastard sword if needed too. It's a couple inches shorter in blade length and a bit lighter of an overall sword.
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Post by curiomansion on Feb 13, 2024 21:39:18 GMT
I'm shocked by the sentiment that the Ringeck and Fiores don't handle well in one hand. I found the examples I handled to be very capable single handers.
That said, I do adore Albion's XVII blades and believe them to be more unique on the market. They cut better and are more robust. The XVa's you mentioned do feel quicker in two hands are are longer. They are some of the closest sharps to hema feders I've found.
Within the types, just go by looks and vibes, imo.
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Post by snap on Feb 14, 2024 0:00:05 GMT
I'm shocked by the sentiment that the Ringeck and Fiores don't handle well in one hand. I found the examples I handled to be very capable single handers. That said, I do adore Albion's XVII blades and believe them to be more unique on the market. They cut better and are more robust. The XVa's you mentioned do feel quicker in two hands are are longer. They are some of the closest sharps to hema feders I've found. Within the types, just go by looks and vibes, imo. Comparative assessment. Going by what I've heard, the longer and stouter XV blade is significantly less conducive to one handed use than the mercenary/castillon/constable blade. I am used to arming swords, sometimes even heavy arming swords. I own the sempach and I don't find it particularly fun or pleasant to use one-handed because I'm used to swords that are tuned for one handed use.
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Post by curiomansion on Feb 14, 2024 0:26:46 GMT
I'm shocked by the sentiment that the Ringeck and Fiores don't handle well in one hand. I found the examples I handled to be very capable single handers. That said, I do adore Albion's XVII blades and believe them to be more unique on the market. They cut better and are more robust. The XVa's you mentioned do feel quicker in two hands are are longer. They are some of the closest sharps to hema feders I've found. Within the types, just go by looks and vibes, imo. Comparative assessment. Going by what I've heard, the longer and stouter XV blade is significantly less conducive to one handed use than the mercenary/castillon/constable blade. I am used to arming swords, sometimes even heavy arming swords. I own the sempach and I don't find it particularly fun or pleasant to use one-handed because I'm used to swords that are tuned for one handed use. What's the longest arming sword you've used? Have you played with any longer single handers like rapiers and heavy side swords? I find Albion's longer XVa's very comparable to longer single handed blades. Naturally the shorter bastards will feel more handy, but that's often what you categorically gain from having a shorter blade length. In a 1v1 spar, most people find that the extra few inches makes up for the added dangliness.
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Post by snap on Feb 14, 2024 1:54:11 GMT
Comparative assessment. Going by what I've heard, the longer and stouter XV blade is significantly less conducive to one handed use than the mercenary/castillon/constable blade. I am used to arming swords, sometimes even heavy arming swords. I own the sempach and I don't find it particularly fun or pleasant to use one-handed because I'm used to swords that are tuned for one handed use. What's the longest arming sword you've used? Have you played with any longer single handers like rapiers and heavy side swords? I find Albion's longer XVa's very comparable to longer single handed blades. Naturally the shorter bastards will feel more handy, but that's often what you categorically gain from having a shorter blade length. In a 1v1 spar, most people find that the extra few inches makes up for the added dangliness. Longest arming sword would be the Albion Turin/st maurice but that thing is a true pig and outlier. Most longswords are more handy. I have the LK chen Saxony rapier and did a fair bit of rapier back in my HEMA days
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Post by curiomansion on Feb 14, 2024 18:45:25 GMT
What's the longest arming sword you've used? Have you played with any longer single handers like rapiers and heavy side swords? I find Albion's longer XVa's very comparable to longer single handed blades. Naturally the shorter bastards will feel more handy, but that's often what you categorically gain from having a shorter blade length. In a 1v1 spar, most people find that the extra few inches makes up for the added dangliness. Longest arming sword would be the Albion Turin/st maurice but that thing is a true pig and outlier. Most longswords are more handy. I have the LK chen Saxony rapier and did a fair bit of rapier back in my HEMA days I think you'll find the the longer XVa's comparable to the cuttier rapiers you've handled. Very manageable.
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Post by blackngold on Feb 23, 2024 3:38:08 GMT
I think I've also heard that the type XVII (a la the Sempach/Landgraf) isn't a particularly light/lively Oakeshott type. Dunno how Albion's makes of them are, maybe someone can chime in... The vast majority of Type XVII's of antiquity are the LEAST "cutty" swords in any given collection. Albion admitted in their description of one of their two models that they chose to replicate examples at one of the extreme ends of the spectrum rather than the mean or median example for this type, and I can't blame them for doing so. Honestly, how many of us would part with our hard-earned money on a longsword whose edge geometry is not exactly conducive to cutting through a single tatami mat? (Yes, I realize this is a slight exaggeration, but it illustrates the broader point.) Albion created two awesome Type XVII swords for today's market-- nothing more, nothing less.
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Post by blackngold on Feb 23, 2024 3:45:56 GMT
Hi guys, I need everyone`s insight.
I think I`m looking for more lively and feels light in the end and maybe even something that feel easy to control by one hand more than the others.
I really like Pear-shaped, scent stopper, fish tail designs over the round pommels but of course it doesn`t matter if one will be noticeably better handling and feeling lighter, livelier than the other(s) (when held with one hand) Since most bastard swords or two handers in 35-36inch length with similar POB around 3-3.25 lbs feel ok with two hands. Based on these two statements, I might recommend you shift gears and take a serious look at the Castellan, Constable, or Mercenary. While it sounds like you're trying to talk yourself into a longsword, I have a sneaking suspicion you might be quite happy with a "true hand-and-a-half", of which the Castellan, at least in my (limited, dry-handling) experience, is the liveliest. Just a thought! Regardless, I'll wish you the best of luck on your decision.
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Post by toddstratton1 on Feb 23, 2024 4:00:00 GMT
I think I've also heard that the type XVII (a la the Sempach/Landgraf) isn't a particularly light/lively Oakeshott type. Dunno how Albion's makes of them are, maybe someone can chime in... The vast majority of Type XVII's of antiquity are the LEAST "cutty" swords in any given collection. Albion admitted in their description of one of their two models that they chose to replicate examples at one of the extreme ends of the spectrum rather than the mean or median example for this type, and I can't blame them for doing so. Honestly, how many of us would part with our hard-earned money on a longsword whose edge geometry is not exactly conducive to cutting through a single tatami mat? (Yes, I realize this is a slight exaggeration, but it illustrates the broader point.) Albion created two awesome Type XVII swords for today's market-- nothing more, nothing less. My landgraf feels fine to use and the landgraf and Sempach are better cutters by comparison to the Ringneck and its relative blade cousins. The Mercenary and other swords who share that blade are more cut capable though if you cut lower on the sword, and are much more fun to handle. I have a Mercenary I just picked up, and it's probably my 2nd or 1st favorite in handling of any albion I've owned.
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Post by fayebarca on Feb 23, 2024 4:33:37 GMT
I think I've also heard that the type XVII (a la the Sempach/Landgraf) isn't a particularly light/lively Oakeshott type. Dunno how Albion's makes of them are, maybe someone can chime in... The vast majority of Type XVII's of antiquity are the LEAST "cutty" swords in any given collection. Albion admitted in their description of one of their two models that they chose to replicate examples at one of the extreme ends of the spectrum rather than the mean or median example for this type, and I can't blame them for doing so. Honestly, how many of us would part with our hard-earned money on a longsword whose edge geometry is not exactly conducive to cutting through a single tatami mat? (Yes, I realize this is a slight exaggeration, but it illustrates the broader point.) Albion created two awesome Type XVII swords for today's market-- nothing more, nothing less. I did see someone bring a Sempach to a cutting competition recently, and I think he did make it through the mat a couple of times. Not a great or even good cutter, but not the worst. I did observe that Albion’s XVIIs are significantly lighter than the typical historical example. The worst, though. My instructor and I recently got our hands on Munichs. I already suspected it’d be an awful, awful, cutter, because it’s an incredibly thick blade in a narrow profile, and he basically confirmed it. He’s definitely an advanced cutter and he couldn’t make it through once. That being said, I hope you’d agree with me that one doesn’t buy a Munich to win cutting competitions with. The Munich is for its beauty.
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Post by tomtx on Feb 23, 2024 12:37:02 GMT
Hi guys, I need everyone`s insight.
I never owned a thrust oriented sword. I decided I really want one but I`m super torn between these four.
Ringeck and Fiore being cost effective but I guess I rather get one I will love than trade or sell later.
I think I`m looking for more lively and feels light in the end and maybe even something that feel easy to control by one hand more than the others.
I really like Pearshaped, scent stopper, fish tail designs over the round pommels but ofcourse it doesn`t matter if one will be noticeably better handling and feeling lighter,livelier than the other(s) (when held with one hand) Since most bastard swords or two handers in 35-36inch length with similar POB around 3-3.25 lbs feel ok with two hands.
I read and watched all the videos I could find but still can`t make the decision. It looks like XVII`s will be better cutter than the XVa`s but is it just a tad difference or night and day difference if used to cut? (not water bottles or milk jugs, cutting tatamis)
I kinda am leaning towards Ringeck and Sempach but then $400 difference says buy Ringeck. Is Sempach worth the difference for what I`m looking for?
Thanks for your input.
Lots of good comments here. I have Sempach, Landgraf, and Fiore. If I could only keep one it would be the Sempach. Hexagonal blades are sort of a technological improvement over diamond and lenticular blades, allowing them to be stiffer (more like thick diamond cross section) but still thin enough to cut (more like lenticular). Of course, like diamonds that are very different in character (thick, narrow, puncturing Ringeck vs thinner, wider, cut-and-thrust Mercenary), the same general cross section can act differently depending on how it's made, thickness, etc. There were also thin hexagonals like the famous Moonbrand XIV for example that were cut-oriented, or the modern Vision Milan. Also there were hybrids that transition from stiff hexagonal / octagonal at the base to more lenticular or diamond toward the tip (like Sanct Annen and Brescia). I think hexagonal blades are beautiful when done well, and these Albions are.
All that being said, the Fiore is nice but I wouldn't feel bad about selling it. The Sempach would be the last Albion I would sell. Landgraf is not as pretty to me personally (although generally I like wheel pommels better, but not in this case). Another thing to consider is that the Sempach pommel can be used as a grip extension, while the Landgraf pommel can't (and these are pretty short grips, about 7in, that some people don't like. Perfect for me though, because I like tight grips, and both my hands barely fit snugly on the leather part). If you have bigger hands, Landgraf could be a problem but Sempach could work well.
But no doubt the Fiore / Ringeck etc are different in character with a long, heavy puncturing blade. That's what it's designed for, and it has a thick awl point for that purpose. Cutting is not a primary concern if you are choosing that one. Also, it has a longer grip, more of a true 2-hand grip, so of course you could half-sword with it but it would be strange to use it like a one-hand sword. It does feel agile because the center of mass is back toward the guard. But if you want a lighter, pretty nimble, more bastard-gripped XVa that can probably cut decently, and works pretty well in one hand, then I second the Mercenary. Looks really nice too... another of my favorites.
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Post by metinemre on Feb 24, 2024 1:44:47 GMT
Thanks for all the comments, very nice input here. I`m sure it will help everyone who reads it now and in the future. I ended up ordering the Landgraf. I had few reasons after reading all these. First of all I think it really looks super cool, I never owned a thrusting oriented sword but still being able to good ok to good made me choose it over the XVa blades. I love how Ringeck looks. Very elegant and guard, pommel is my favourite of all options but then I really didn`t want only thrusting sword. I may most likely order the Ringeck too. Also I won`t lie I saw Jeffrey Robinson`s rehilted Landgraf.That thing is a beauty. At some point if wheel pommel and shorter handle bothers me I may have it rehilted with the hilt style of Ringeck and have the best of all worlds :D Cheers
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Post by blackngold on Feb 24, 2024 2:13:31 GMT
The worst, though. My instructor and I recently got our hands on Munichs. I already suspected it’d be an awful, awful, cutter, because it’s an incredibly thick blade in a narrow profile, and he basically confirmed it. He’s definitely an advanced cutter and he couldn’t make it through once. That being said, I hope you’d agree with me that one doesn’t buy a Munich to win cutting competitions with. The Munich is for its beauty. Not surprising-- these late Type XVIIIb's kind of serve the functions of both the Type XVII's they replaced, and the rapiers that would come only decades later. I was kind of hoping it would make it through a single mat, though (the Munich is on my "short list")...
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Post by toddstratton1 on Feb 24, 2024 2:19:39 GMT
The worst, though. My instructor and I recently got our hands on Munichs. I already suspected it’d be an awful, awful, cutter, because it’s an incredibly thick blade in a narrow profile, and he basically confirmed it. He’s definitely an advanced cutter and he couldn’t make it through once. That being said, I hope you’d agree with me that one doesn’t buy a Munich to win cutting competitions with. The Munich is for its beauty. Not surprising-- these late Type XVIIIb's kind of serve the functions of both the Type XVII's they replaced, and the rapiers that would come only decades later. I was kind of hoping it would make it through a single mat, though (the Munich is on my "short list")... Definitely worth picking up a munich still. They are one of the best swords to represent most European long sword fighting styles for fiore and German longsword etc. Just got to get a few other swords if you want to do some competition cutting wirh the mats haha.
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Post by fayebarca on Feb 24, 2024 2:31:43 GMT
Maybe apexing the edge could make the difference. The one that was used was Albion's factory edge.
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Post by blackngold on Feb 24, 2024 17:15:32 GMT
Definitely worth picking up a munich still. They are one of the best swords to represent most European long sword fighting styles for fiore and German longsword etc. Just got to get a few other swords if you want to do some competition cutting wirh the mats haha. The sword that inspired the Munich is one of the most beautiful examples of western weaponry ever made, in my humble opinion. Having said that, for the "slender-n-stabby longsword" niche of my small collection, I'm actually eyeballing that "used" Cluny on sale at KoA, as I love the low-key coolness of that pommel, and the Cluny Sword has always struck me as a more "hardcore" expression of the type than the Munich Sword. I just need a few more months to pay down my card balance a little more... If money were no object, I'd probably comission a custom longsword utilizing details & forms (albeit "adjusted" slightly in order to create more cohesiveness, so it doesn't come off as a disjointed hodgepodge) from some of my favorite documented XVIIIa's & XVIIIb's throughout public & private collections, likely from one of the highly talented smiths currently residing in Poland.
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Post by fayebarca on Feb 24, 2024 17:22:31 GMT
Not a bad idea on that Cluny. The price on KoA is from before Albion's increase, so you'd be saving hundreds even with tax and shipping.
I want it too, but $$$ is an object. Otherwise, that Ljubljana would also be mine.
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