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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 10:15:29 GMT
I have acquired a new sword from Fablesblades (Hi Brendan !). It definetely deserves a decent scabbard. Pictures are here : /index.cgi?board=fable&action=display&thread=6795&page=1I looked at the amazing work from Brian (DBK custom swords), from Maz & his cocobolo scabbard and decided to make the step forward and do my scabbard myself.Ok it is also because it would cost too much to ask anyone else ... I'll do what I can, I understood the process. That would be a wooden scabbard with some leather parts on it All hints, tutorials ( never too much), advices are welcomed. What would YOU do with the scabbards ? your taste interests me. My biggest problem for the moment concerns the ricasso. What kind of shape should I give to the scabbard with it ? Stopping just before the ricasso ? all the blade is not protected but it has the advantage that you can draw your sword using the ricasso. How would be the balance of the scabbard while wearing it with a belt ? Doing a larger part enabling the ricasso to be in the scabbard ? Well...Is it even possible ? The sword would rip off the scabbard fairly easily...
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Oct 22, 2008 12:57:58 GMT
Hi Just to clarify for the folks at home Kamui is in France and hence the post alone on sending a sword to and from Brian would be more than many of the swords reviewed here. I haven't tried one yet, but this is how I'd do it: *I'd take two planks of suitable wood at suitable sizes. It's been discussed elsewhere here previously. Some are big nonos. Due to acidity etc. *First I would trace the sword onto the blanks. Try to remember maybe which side is which. Being a hand made sword it won't be perfectly symetrical. The scabbard will be likely to fit better one way than the other. Being a leaf blade, make sure to have the narrow waist sections the broader width right through to where they will sit when inserted. * I would try to sculpt ot the channel with a belt sander. I have a hand held beltsander which is my best friend. They aren't expensive. I have mine mounted in a vice (by the handle). It's easier to maneuver the wood than the sander. *Alternatively you could try with chisels. If so always chisel uphill. I.e. identify which way the grain goes. Chisel uphill so that as the chip lifts it peels away, rather than getting deeper. * I would maybe have the sides of the scabbard slotted for the ricasso, so that the scabbard goes up over the ricasso which would look preferable. However I would have the spurs hit the scabbard as a stopper, rather than the guard. This is to avoid wearing / scuffing the heat coloured finish of the guard. The problem would be having the spurs tear at your clothes! They're pretty sharp. I dulled them a little... Maybe have the blanks wide enough that the scabbard can flare to shield the spurs. The slots are weaker though. So maybe just have the wider scabbard. *Test your fit before gluing together. I use epoxy on all my grips and it's strong. I had to split one once, and it split the hardwood rather than the epoxy. *I'd then shape the exterior of the scabbard after it is all together. *Regarding leather - I have no idea about stitching. Only glue. If you try to use risers I can recommend using only real leather cord. It cuts and joins cleaner. His Sword: My sugestion:
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Post by Brian of DBK on Oct 24, 2008 16:43:07 GMT
This isn't meant to be anything negative towards Brendan, because I think his swords are beautiful. But his swords are one of a scabbard makers biggest challenges because of the ricasso and those flared edges. It's very possible to do, but the biggest obstacle is the suspension and rain guards (if desired). This scabbard would be for an advanced scabbard maker, as one that I did of similar nature was challenging and I had to be quite creative to come up with the solutions necessary for functionality. The lower part of the blade was wider than the mouth, and the guard would not allow for the suspension to sit up high enough.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2008 11:44:32 GMT
thanks Brian and Brendan, i know this one is a challenging one and that's why i requested the communty help. i'm forced to do that because of the shipping rate of the sword which would be too high for a custom scabbard. I was afraid that a scababrd like brendan suggested would be too weak near the guard but as Brian did one.... i just have to do like him..SO EASY TO SAY !!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2008 13:12:26 GMT
Kamui, Congratulations on owning that awesome sword! It definitely needs a good scabbard. What I would do is get a 4/4 plank of whatever wood you are gonna use, and rip it into two thinner planks using a tablesaw. If you don't have access to a tablesaw, just use two planks or get thinner stock. If you are going to cover it in leather, Basswood is good to use because it's easy to work, but strong enough. If you go the hardwood route, check the acidity of the wood first. I understand laquering the inside of the wood thoroughly will also prevent moisture and acidity problems. Here is the basic design I would use: One of these for each side, once you have the basic shape roughed out you will need to spend some time shaving off a bit, then checking it against the blade, shaving off a bit more, and so on in order to get a good fit. To avoid wear against the color treatment on the guard, I would recommend a piece of felt, died to match either the guard or the wood, glued and cut to the shape of the scabbard mouth. As has been said above, check your fit thoroughly before gluing the sides together. I reccommend Titebond III or elmers woodglue, but Brendan has good results with epoxy also. After the glue is thoroughly cured (give it 24 hours, no matter what you use) you can shape it with a belt sander. Keep a good picture in your head of where the blade is gonna be inside, and leave yourself some room for error. There are almost certainly going to be some ripples in the wood you will want to sand down by hand after the fact. If you don't have access to a beltsander, and you're a masochist, rasps and files will do the shaping just as well. I did my first one that way. Another tip: while sanding, put a piece of masking tape over the mouth of the scabbard to keep out sawdust. -Especially if you lined it. Good luck with your project, can't wait to see it!
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Post by Brian of DBK on Oct 25, 2008 19:39:52 GMT
That's one way to do it, and probably the safest. It will just be a little fat near the guard.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2008 18:21:41 GMT
Thanks Maz for your contribution (or should I say "Mister Jean-Luc Picard !!").Especially the tips you mentionned... All will be done "manually" as I have no access to any machine...I'm sweating just thinking about it I agree with Brian : safest way although a little bit fat near the guard. I'd rather see the ricasso all covered by the scabbard even if I can not draw the weapon unsig the ricasso ( well if I want to screw up my scabbard...) and even if Conan (i saw the movie again yesterday) has a scabbard only covering the sharp part of his sword. I'm not a barbarian and I have other things to than oiling the blade every day ! I will certainly go for this type and try to make the scabbard look slimmer by shaping the exterior (as you can see on Brendan's drawing).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2008 4:54:16 GMT
Brian, that leafblade sword, is that cirth on the scabbard? It seems to have non-historical symbols, but when I looked up the characters in all three major cirth systems I wasn't able to get anything coherent...well, at least not if it's a direct english transliteration...
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Post by kidcasanova on Oct 31, 2008 10:25:41 GMT
Jonathan, it's mostly elder futhark, though there are runes I don't recognize. Look around in the general Discussion forum for Brian's scabbard thread, we made a good number of posts about it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2008 15:50:48 GMT
Hmmm, yeah, seems they are mostly decorative. Still, I pulled out my Cirth reference (I gave up on real runes, but the "unknown" symbols do appear in Tolkein's work), and got this using the Angerthas Daeron:
(line beginning at throat of scabbard) dndr nanie dndúril i nee narthil i maril
(line ending at throat of scabbard) elendilo lerkuba nten i móli mordóreoi
Some of those strike me as sounding terribly familiar...
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Post by kidcasanova on Oct 31, 2008 22:08:22 GMT
From that it would appear to be referencing (quite obviously) the reforging of Anduril, and mentioning the account of Elendil's battle against Sauron in Mordor. I'd have to look up the runes on Anduril, but I'm positive it has a similar inscription.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2008 23:11:56 GMT
Nice...I noticed "Anduril" "Narsil" Elendil" and "Mordor" but somehow didn't put that together. I'll look it up later and see what the exact inscription is. *UPDATE* So, looks like I didn't do too bad...it says the inscription was in the Angerthas Eregion (elvish runes), but I got fairly close with Angerthas Daeron. Anar Nányë Andúril i né Narsil i macil Elendilo. Lercuvanten i móli Mordórëo. Isil 'Sun. I am Andúril who once was Narsil, sword of Elendil. The slaves of Mordor shall flee from me. Moon.' [lit. 'Sun. I-am Andúril which was Narsil the sword of-Elendil. They-will-flee-from-me the thralls of-Mordor. Moon.'] But apparently, there was an error in the movie version of the inscription, I saw this on the site where I got the above info: NOTE! The Cirth inscription seems to be erroneous in two places. The word Anar is transcribed in Elvish runes as Dndr and Andúril as dndúril. It seems the sword-makers had in mind Germanic rune a, not the Elvish a. That explains something that had me scratching my head when I was reading the runes... -Jonathan
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2008 23:52:07 GMT
As far as the wood goes, I looked through and searched, but I can't find the discussion of it. Which wood(s) is(are) best? Which should be avoided? I was thinking of using oak, is that good or bad? The local Menard's has mahogany as well, and maple, but I wouldn't think of pine. Also, since I was thinking of getting two blanks, which thickness is best to start with? I've got a custom wood seller semi-nearby, I can get them cut to order if need be....should it be two half-inch pieces, or 3/8ths? I'd rather grab them at Menard's or home Depot, rather than driver 25 miles to the custom shop, but I'd do it. Kamui, I'm looking to do my own wood scabbard for the first time as well, so I obviously know no more than you, but I'd give it a practice shot on a simpler sword. That sword is so very stunning, it deserves a really special scabbard. Of course, that's because I expect to do a better job on my second one. You may well be a better wood worker than me! I'm going to do one to replace a leather scabbard for a blunt sword, pursuant to doing one for a sharp.
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Post by Brian of DBK on Nov 3, 2008 0:54:21 GMT
Oak would be bad. Mahogany isn't good either, it snaps easily.
Poplar wood (would) be good. There is my hint for the day.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2008 2:02:13 GMT
Oak would be bad. Mahogany isn't good either, it snaps easily. Poplar wood (would) be good. There is my hint for the day. I heed your hints...but can you elaborate? Is it bad for the sap/acids or some such? I'll have to look around for poplar. Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2008 8:23:56 GMT
Thanks Brian for today's hint ! I have thought about Cedar maybe... do you have any feedback ? it might be too hard... Well Death-dude, you're welcomed anytime to share your experience. I won't start right from now, due to work overload, probably in two weeks. everything is ready (plan, chisels, epoxy...). I will take some pictures step by step ..could be some use to show what to do.what to avoid afterwards...
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Post by Brian of DBK on Nov 3, 2008 14:14:46 GMT
I don't know that you need to worry about acids in common woods, as there are none that I am aware of that could cause a problem with metal. But then again, I haven't tried them all, and nobody has outright made a list of "wood & metal; what to avoid".
What you want is a fairly flexible wood that isn't too hard, or too soft. A wood that also shapes well is desired. Poplar makes an excellent choice. Mahogany is too brittle, and oak is too hard to work with, but plausible.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2008 23:02:17 GMT
I don't know that you need to worry about acids in common woods, as there are none that I am aware of that could cause a problem with metal. But then again, I haven't tried them all, and nobody has outright made a list of "wood & metal; what to avoid". What you want is a fairly flexible wood that isn't too hard, or too soft. A wood that also shapes well is desired. Poplar makes an excellent choice. Mahogany is too brittle, and oak is too hard to work with, but plausible. Thanks, Brian, I had wondered what your presentiments were about oak - if it was due to some damage to the metal. I had thought oak simply because I work with it more than any other, and it's fairly cheap, and durable. I'm planning on covering it with leather or suede after, but I wanted something that will take a knock or two if need be. I'll have time tomorrow to call around to see how available poplar is, nonetheless. Thanks. I think you should. I'll try to on my second one, perhaps, if I feel like I know what I'm doing by then. I guess my only worries are that I'll shave it too thin, or that when glueing them together, I'll slop a big glob inside that gives me trouble. If felt is glued in prior, maybe that will help there? I think I'll try to go with 1/4" blanks, I'll have to look at them together to see...what do people usually use?
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Post by Marc Ridgeway on Nov 3, 2008 23:05:39 GMT
I don't know that you need to worry about acids in common woods, as there are none that I am aware of that could cause a problem with metal. But then again, I haven't tried them all, and nobody has outright made a list of "wood & metal; what to avoid". What you want is a fairly flexible wood that isn't too hard, or too soft. A wood that also shapes well is desired. Poplar makes an excellent choice. Mahogany is too brittle, and oak is too hard to work with, but plausible. Thanks, Brian, I had wondered what your presentiments were about oak - if it was due to some damage to the metal. I had thought oak simply because I work with it more than any other, and it's fairly cheap, and durable. I'm planning on covering it with leather or suede after, but I wanted something that will take a knock or two if need be. I'll have time tomorrow to call around to see how available poplar is, nonetheless. Thanks. I think you should. I'll try to on my second one, perhaps, if I feel like I know what I'm doing by then. I guess my only worries are that I'll shave it too thin, or that when glueing them together, I'll slop a big glob inside that gives me trouble. If felt is glued in prior, maybe that will help there? I think I'll try to go with 1/4" blanks, I'll have to look at them together to see...what do people usually use? Actually, the tannins in Oak are bad for steel. Generally you want a fibrous , non resinous wood ... tulip poplar is good...among others
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2008 2:16:00 GMT
Actually, the tannins in Oak are bad for steel. Generally you want a fibrous , non resinous wood ... tulip poplar is good...among others Thanks, I will look to see what poplars are available. I have an Intermountain Woodhttp://www.intermountainwood.com/index.htm store within a half-hour, I think they have most common woods. That's the kind of caveat I wondered about. It seems like the glue would seal all that away, but perhaps a nick of the blade or something could expose it. This site www.hardwoodinfo.com/species_guide/display_species.asp?species=poplar lists some of the properties of poplar wood, it sounds interesting. I'm keen to try it.
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