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Post by The Swordsaint on Jun 5, 2022 20:01:04 GMT
Well, it arrived. My very first impression is that Cold Steel's packing and sharpening really suck. The product looks good but was shipped with insufficient packing and no tip guard, so the tip was poking through the box and rolled over. Quillions likewise poking out of box but no obvious damage. Tiny sliver missing from high point on one of the grip slabs. The sharpening looks a blind monkey did it. Steep secondary bevel and the grind actually makes a dip into the width of the blade about 1/3 up from the guard, giving a slightly parabolic aspect to the profile. Very amateur. The 'scabbard' is indeed just a frog, and not a good one like the old Lutel version. It seems pretty useless, so this is definitely a sword you'll want to make a proper scabbard for. Still for $355, this is good value. Distal taper looks decent, stock starts off thick enough. Mass: 1503g/3.3lbs Taper: 1/3=7mm, 2/3=4.6mm, 3/3=2.5mm POB: 108mm/4.25in Thanks ihutch1 Just wanted to finally add the Knecht measurements for any modders out there. Grip30mm grip at guards (Nagel facing you) 36 mm at the pommel(Nagel facing you) 20mm thick at crossguard 22 mm thick at pommel Cross guard 10mm at the blade 15mm at the swell on the ends 244.475 mm (9.675 inch) total length Blade8mm base 5mm. Midway 2mm at the point 43mm Blade width at base 843 mm (33.19 inch) total blade length Full sword1127.125 mm (44.375 inch) total sword width 3.3 lbs
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Post by vincentblack on Jun 8, 2022 23:35:06 GMT
I got mine in today and looking down side of the blade, you'd expect the edge to smoothly follow the shape of the blade but the edge has several waves in it like the edge was dinged and then sharpened back out. The edge is sharp all the way to the tip though.
To me, the handle feels uncomfortable. The corners on the wood slabs are a bit too sharp so I'll be rounding them out some.
The sword itself does seem pretty well made and the tip wasn't rolled and even had a plastic tip protector on it.
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Post by pellius on Jun 9, 2022 1:24:57 GMT
Mine came straight and sharp with a well made secondary bevel. I got it straight from CS on the super sale. Shipping was lightning fast. And free.
The box was packed out with shredded paper(!), but it all mostly stayed in one big wad for unboxing.
The sword itself was tightly wrapped with about 100 feet of tough stretchy cling-wrap tape stuff; as if one of those Lord of the Rings super spiders bound it up to save for later. The blade was also in a plastic sleeve, and a plastic protector was mega-cling strapped onto the tip. It was a bit tough to cut free, even with a razor knife, but the sword was extremely well protected.
No scabbard. No frog. Just the big ole messer. [Edit - I got a frog! Nice.]
My first impressions were very positive.
It’s a proper big two hander with good proportions and nice fittings. Build quality seems good, with nice tight tolerances. The nagel peen is very well done, and the pommel peen is nearly invisible, though not quite round. The channel in the grip is echoed by the guard, and the nagel is seated neatly, though not perfectly, in it.
The blade is straight with decent linear distal taper. It aaaaaalmost rings when struck. It has a nice profile curve.
The overall shape is quite pleasing.
As others have noted, the grip could stand to be a little more rounded off. Same with the quillons.
It seems a little heavy, but the balance is still pretty good. Everything about the sword seems oriented to military engagement rather than civilian fencing. It is robust and serious, but still very much made to be used. It doesn’t feel like an Albion or an L Driggers, but it moves with purpose and recovers with precision. It ain’t a crowbar!
I’d estimate it to be roughly mid-tier in quality, design and execution, but with a budget level price. Especially when on sale. I don’t know of any other well made and decent handling kriegsmesser anywhere near this price point.
So, anecdotal thumbs up from me.
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Post by cptnvimes on Jun 10, 2022 15:09:56 GMT
I got mine yesterday too. The packing job from KoA was excellent. Nothing was poking out of the box (heard horror stories about that) no damage whatsoever. Very pleased with that. The quality overall is pretty decent (especially for the price). The edge sharpening has some minor little waves in it like vincentblack mentioned above but it's not too bad, I think some attention with a sharpening stone could fix that. The gap between the guard and blade isn't the smallest either but with a peened nagel this shouldn't be a problem. I agree with the comments about the handle... it could be more comfortable but I can easily take care of that myself. Overall it feels a little bit on the heavier side but it's not bad. With some customization this could turn into a great blade. Overall I am very pleased with this purchase. In a sense I do like the fact that this messer is 90% there and if the customer feels inclined to tinker it could be taken to the next level. I could see if people don't like to mess around with their blades certain aspects might be annoying but overall I give this product a thumbs up.
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Post by Mark Millman on Aug 24, 2022 19:16:29 GMT
Folks, I just ordered one. . . . the construction method seems legit. . . . . . . The nagel peen is very well done . . . . . . The gap between the guard and blade isn't the smallest either but with a peened nagel this shouldn't be a problem. . . . I just got a Cold Steel Kriegsmesser (thanks, patmourin!) and I've discovered that, at least on mine, the nagel is not peened. As I was oiling it after arrival, I noticed that the nagel was getting loose. It got loose enough to rotate out of position, and eventually to come off the guard. Rather than a rivet, the nagel was held with what looks like a small (1/8" or 3.2mm diameter) carriage bolt cut down to about 3/4" (19mm) below the head, leaving about 3/8" (9.5mm) of threading. The unthreaded portion passes through the guard and blade, and the threads engage a threaded socket drilled into the nagel's base. So it's pinned and screwed in place rather than peened. That wouldn't be a problem, except that since the bolt's head has been ground down to resemble the peen of a rivet, it has lost the driver slot and therefore is very hard to tighten if it becomes loose. I think this shouldn't be too difficult to fix--I should be able either to get a new bolt, screw the nagel back on (perhaps after drilling and threading the socket a little deeper and applying some Loctite for security) and use a Dremel or a file to reshape the bolt's head. Or I could take the kriegsmesser and the nagel to a machine shop or a smith to see whether the bolt can be replaced with an actual rivet, which is something I can't do at home. Anyway, I thought this would be of interest, and I hope that nobody else who gets one of these has to deal with it. But if you're interested in modifying the kriegsmesser, this may actually make your life a bit easier. Best, Mark Millman
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Post by cptnvimes on Aug 24, 2022 20:47:09 GMT
Sigh... Cold Steel up to their usual shanenigans I see... Is it really that much to ask to peen the damn thing? got me fooled. Thanks for the info. Any images of this by any chance?
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Post by randomnobody on Aug 24, 2022 20:59:14 GMT
Wow, that's disappointing. Wasn't really in the market for one of these, anyway, but now I definitely don't want one.
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Post by Daigoro on Aug 24, 2022 21:19:22 GMT
Kriegsmesser, not Kreigsmesser. (Krieg = war in German) Cold Steel misspells it as Kreigsmesser for the model name but uses the correct spelling in the description. I think that might cause some issues when people starting googling it.
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Post by skelley on Aug 24, 2022 22:01:56 GMT
Have you thought about contacting CS about it. Its description on KOA reads "it features a traditional Nagel or nail to protect the outside of the hand..." and traditional nagel makes me think peened but I don't know if there are other historical methods. At the very least, it should be mentioned in the item description if it's not peened.
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Post by pellius on Aug 24, 2022 22:36:00 GMT
Hmph. *shakes head* Well, they fooled me.
I’ll have to take a closer look at mine when I get a chance. As I recall, the peen-looking thing was shaped nicely. Seems like an actual peen would be easier and maybe cheaper, but whatever.
I won’t feel so bad reshaping my grip, now.
Thanks for the info.
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Post by Mark Millman on Aug 24, 2022 23:13:47 GMT
Folks, Sigh... Cold Steel up to their usual shanenigans I see... Is it really that much to ask to peen the damn thing? got me fooled. Thanks for the info. Any images of this by any chance? Sorry, no images. (I don't have a camera at the moment, and my 'phone (by plan) doesn't take photos.) I suspect that peening the nagel in place would very likely increase the cost, perhaps significantly, which is no doubt why they chose to attach it in the way I describe. They may also have worried about the quality of the peen. I imagine it's easier to guarantee a consistently tight attachment by screwing on the nagel than by peening it. If I were to guess, I'd say that my kriegsmesser was subjected to an unusually large amount of vibration in shipping, leading the bolt to work itself loose. Have you thought about contacting CS about it. Nope. Three reasons: It doesn't bother me enough; I'm not the original buyer, so I really have no recourse if I were dissatisfied; and the last time I contacted Cold Steel about misleading marketing information, they ignored me, so I'm unwilling to waste the effort on them now. Notice that I waited until I could get one at second hand before I bought it. Perhaps so, but I think that their intention was probably to distinguish the fact that the kriegsmesser has a nagel from their old grosse messer, which has a side ring cut in one piece with the crossguard. [Edited to add:] And now I've looked at the text on Cold Steel's site in which they explicitly say just that, so I think that what had been speculation is confirmed. As for attaching the nagel, I also don't know whether any method other than peening was commonly, or for that matter ever, used; but I do know that at least sometimes the side spikes on pollaxe heads, which probably suffered at least as much stress as nagels, were screwed on. One spike would be drilled and tapped to serve as a nut, while the opposite one would have a threaded rod welded to or forged out of its base to act as a bolt. The bolt portion would pass through the pollaxe's head and the top of the haft and the other spike would screw on to it, fixing the whole assembly in place in addition to the rivets or clench nails through the languets and the haft. In Hans Talhoffer's 1459 Fechtbuch, MS Thott.290.2º in Denmark's Royal Library in Copenhagen, there's an illustration that shows one both in pieces and assembled. I've noticed that there's a member here looking for a left-handed messer. As far as I can tell Cold Steel doesn't offer these set up for lefties, but this construction may make it easier to convert the stock model. Best, Mark Millman
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Post by Mark Millman on Aug 24, 2022 23:33:25 GMT
Dear pellius, Hmph. *shakes head* Well, they fooled me. I’ll have to take a closer look at mine when I get a chance. As I recall, the peen-looking thing was shaped nicely. Seems like an actual peen would be easier and maybe cheaper, but whatever. I won’t feel so bad reshaping my grip, now. Thanks for the info. You're very welcome. I thought it's something people would want to know. So far, nobody knows that it isn't just mine that's built this way--to be sure, I'd be surprised if that were true, but so far it still seems (remotely) possible. As I say above, I'm skeptical that hot-peening the nagel in place and then cleaning up the peen would be cheaper than the bolt system here, but I don't know for certain. I suspect that an industrial engineer could tell us. Let us know what you find when you look. Best, Mark Millman
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Post by pellius on Aug 26, 2022 0:20:26 GMT
Yeah. Seems not to be a peen. It’s a little hard to tell from the photo, but the button isn’t ground flush with the guard. It is slightly raised. Also, I didn’t see any obvious grind marks on the button. If I look closely, it looks like the button fits into a recess rather than being peened over the guard’s surface. Seems like CS would have to countersink the bore hole for the head of the bolt to get a purchase. It’s a nice fit, though, with no obvious gaps. Until it comes loose, of course.
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Post by Mark Millman on Aug 26, 2022 2:15:47 GMT
Dear pellius,
Yes; on closer inspection of mine, the hole is a little bigger on the bolt-head side than the nagel side, so the head or button does fit into a recess. My bolt head is cylindrical, so I'm not really sure how it would get rotational purchase, but there's definitely a ledge in the hole against which to get pressure through the guard.
I don't know how the bolt would go in without some kind of slot which then was ground off, because the nagel has to fit between the grip ridges. I suppose there might be some kind of very grippy flat-face driver (maybe with a rubber pad on the driver face, and a lot of pressure while it drives the bolt?), but I don't have one. But wait; now that I think of it, I should just try with a pencil eraser. [Edited to add:] I tried it, but couldn't get enough pressure. My bolt does seem to be a little sticky, as it's also hard to turn by hand even while enough of the head is exposed to grip it.
Or, as yours is slightly raised, maybe it is a bolt ground flush and polished with the guard, and yours is about to work loose too. Can you tell whether the button's top is concave, and matches the grip groove? Perhaps a drop or two of Loctite would be a wise preventive measure.
Best,
Mark
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Post by ihutch1 on Sept 1, 2022 7:15:31 GMT
In similar situations where it was difficult to get a purchase, what I did was de-grease, and then hot glue a dowel/etc. in place against the surface and use that to manipulate it. Could be worth a try.
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Post by Mark Millman on Sept 1, 2022 13:46:13 GMT
Dear ihutch1,
Thank you for the advice; that had not occurred to me. But as I'd like to have a visible peen opposite the nagel, I think I'm going to cut threads into a bit of mild steel rod, screw it into the nagel's base, and peen it, probably cold.
Best,
Mark Millman
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Post by cptnvimes on Sept 19, 2022 22:22:15 GMT
Have any of you seen Matthew Jensen review of this? I guess we can add heat treatment issues to the list of problems... Damn it, No more Cold Steel products for the foreseeable future. Hope nobody plans to do any hard cutting with this... unless you want a bent blade. It was so close to be a great piece but Cold Steel had to go ahead and mess it up.
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seth
Member
Just Peachy
Posts: 977
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Post by seth on Sept 21, 2022 17:17:47 GMT
Have any of you seen Matthew Jensen review of this? I guess we can add heat treatment issues to the list of problems... Damn it, No more Cold Steel products for the foreseeable future. Hope nobody plans to do any hard cutting with this... unless you want a bent blade. It was so close to be a great piece but Cold Steel had to go ahead and mess it up. I watched and was disappointed. I have only cut water bottles with mine. I don't think I will do anything more severe.
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Post by ragebot on Mar 6, 2023 4:05:24 GMT
Just watched this vid and Shad seemed to really bash his against some solid wood. He seemed very happy with it even though there was some loosing of the cross guard but did complain about his lack of knowledge in how to repair it. Also saw Matt's vid about it. In any case it seems like a good bang for the buck from my view point. Problem for me is they seem to be out of stock everywhere and no one seems to know when they will be back in stock but I did submit my email to get on the wait list. Kinda wondering why there has been so little updates to this thread.
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Post by cptnvimes on Mar 15, 2023 20:47:03 GMT
I would post some updates as I'm almost finished modifying the hilt on mine. Quite a few hours went into slimming down the quillons and modifying the grip and pommel. Not fully done but i might post some pics. As far as availability goes... i would honestly rather get the Balaur Arms/ LK Chen version of this, by the time that popped up it was already too late for me (already have the CS version) and i couldn't justify buying another Kriegsmesser that's basically the same.
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