pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 17, 2022 17:05:06 GMT
Going back to the lad in the OP. After watching two of the fellow’s video this flashed up when I clicked on YouTube. I don’t know if he owns Madras or is a rep but he definitely is connected. In this video he attempts to cut a nail with a Madras, not a hardened steel screw with its cutting threads, to show madras’ superiority. I think he made one attempt that was picked up by more than one camera with each showing their version. He was clear, repeating several times, about the perfect condition of the edge afterwards. Maybe it’s a photographic illusion but in all photos I took of the blade along with a caption of his statements show a chip. Perhaps he is in need of glasses?
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 17, 2022 17:16:16 GMT
I started to do a video on my impressions of what is being sold today as kukris compared to antiques then added what villagers use, then decided against it as I don’t feel like putting up with the controversy that is sure to follow.
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Post by Simpleman on Apr 17, 2022 20:19:13 GMT
I started to do a video on my impressions of what is being sold today as kukris compared to antiques then added what villagers use, then decided against it as I don’t feel like putting up with the controversy that is sure to follow. But I think you write good on the subject on khukuris, and comparing the ones mentioned sounds interesting. The question should be, could your video be helpful for someone? I think so. On your concern, yes it may be a real one. A bit of a sensitive subject, anyway I think you should do it. Khukuri being unique in the way that they are very much used to this day in comparison to other blades, spears and clubs. Studying them is understanding the past, and the present. Of course only you can decide if you want to finish your project. In meantime, dont remember if I have posted it before, villager khukuri carried in a military belt. Kirati Shamans.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 17, 2022 22:16:24 GMT
I had not seen that photo, thanks. When you said that you had a photo of a “villager khukuri carried in a military belt.”, that is not what I had envisioned. I probably read it as villager khukuri carried on a military belt thinking of a leather belt with what I call a military carry. That is a belt through the frog’s loop and suspended from the hip. I see now a web belt with his kukri tucked in. The reason that I thought at first that being odd was because the Nepalese villagers do not wear belts. He is carrying it much in the same manner that I carry mine except I wear a belt for my pants and tuck the kukri in the same as he does. I remove the frog labelling it so that I know where it belongs. I call the kukris that the manufacturers advertise online Export models. This has nothing to do with quality as that can vary all over the place. I call them Exports as the manufacturers market their wares to the western market so naturally cater to the western whims. They try to make a kukri but bending toward what westerners want, i.e. a shinny, glossy knife, high HRC number, robust meaning more panawal grips although stick tangs can be found. Even offering leather sheaths with western influence. All have frogs that a westerner seems to demand. Try to find one that comes without a frog. What the westerner wants I don’t think the villager would have and vise versa. These are two completely separate markets. For one a villager could not afford a western kukri. 30 USD or a few dollars less would be a good ball park figure for a villager buying a very acceptable kukri according to their standards. I know of one purchase for 16.50 USD. A villager prefers a stick tang, mostly peened but partial stick tangs are not out of the picture. I can’t say for sure but I strongly suspect something with a lower HRC than a westerner demands. I heard one westerner bragging about his 60 HRC blade. I have a hard time imagining a villager wanting something much over 50 and could be something lower that is easier to sharpen. That thinking is in many third world countries and I can appreciate it from my soft machete. It’s very easy to maintain, but yes requires more frequent sharpening. My antiques are at mid to lower 40s and I doubt if that is due to lack of technology. A villager will use whatever is handy and rarely a commercial sharpening stone and certainly no commercial tool, usually a rock or a river stone will do, I did see a round file used once to sharpen. There was a video I saw recently that the owner of a 68 year old kukri made two cuts at a plastic bottle of about 1.5 L size. He sharpened the blade on what looked like a commercial stone before cutting the first bottle. He cut the bottle, not cleanly nor in half. He then re-sharpened it on the floor’s edge where it dropped off into space. That resulted in the bottle being neatly and completely cut in half. I’m not saying anyone is wrong only that there are two different markets out there.
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Post by Simpleman on Apr 18, 2022 14:25:19 GMT
I had not seen that photo, thanks. When you said that you had a photo of a “villager khukuri carried in a military belt.”, that is not what I had envisioned. I probably read it as villager khukuri carried on a military belt thinking of a leather belt with what I call a military carry. That is a belt through the frog’s loop and suspended from the hip. I see now a web belt with his kukri tucked in. The reason that I thought at first that being odd was because the Nepalese villagers do not wear belts. He is carrying it much in the same manner that I carry mine except I wear a belt for my pants and tuck the kukri in the same as he does. I remove the frog labelling it so that I know where it belongs. I call the kukris that the manufacturers advertise online Export models. This has nothing to do with quality as that can vary all over the place. I call them Exports as the manufacturers market their wares to the western market so naturally cater to the western whims. They try to make a kukri but bending toward what westerners want, i.e. a shinny, glossy knife, high HRC number, robust meaning more panawal grips although stick tangs can be found. Even offering leather sheaths with western influence. All have frogs that a westerner seems to demand. Try to find one that comes without a frog. What the westerner wants I don’t think the villager would have and vise versa. These are two completely separate markets. For one a villager could not afford a western kukri. 30 USD or a few dollars less would be a good ball park figure for a villager buying a very acceptable kukri according to their standards. I know of one purchase for 16.50 USD. A villager prefers a stick tang, mostly peened but partial stick tangs are not out of the picture. I can’t say for sure but I strongly suspect something with a lower HRC than a westerner demands. I heard one westerner bragging about his 60 HRC blade. I have a hard time imagining a villager wanting something much over 50 and could be something lower that is easier to sharpen. That thinking is in many third world countries and I can appreciate it from my soft machete. It’s very easy to maintain, but yes requires more frequent sharpening. My antiques are at mid to lower 40s and I doubt if that is due to lack of technology. A villager will use whatever is handy and rarely a commercial sharpening stone and certainly no commercial tool, usually a rock or a river stone will do, I did see a round file used once to sharpen. There was a video I saw recently that the owner of a 68 year old kukri made two cuts at a plastic bottle of about 1.5 L size. He sharpened the blade on what looked like a commercial stone before cutting the first bottle. He cut the bottle, not cleanly nor in half. He then re-sharpened it on the floor’s edge where it dropped off into space. That resulted in the bottle being neatly and completely cut in half. I’m not saying anyone is wrong only that there are two different markets out there. I very much agree. Why there is a difference between the "export versions" and the "villager versions" in terms of polish and HRC I think mainly is because, they use them 24/7 and most else doesnt. The trend with glossy khukuris started in the 60-70 in HongKong with nickelplating. Then it has continued, but with no practical implication or historical source to it. For many, it just looks better and thats fine, from a practical standpoint, it makes no sense. But its like the Parade version of the M1 Garand, it looks good for ceremonial purposes. I am not sure what HRC khukuris have most of the time, but it is crucial that I am able to maintain it without tools just using a rock, or something else while still having good edge retention. Since there are so many manufacturers of Khukuris and many make similar stuff they have to listen to what western markets wants, they will try and make it. Its easy give the customer what he or she wants. Any businessman would do so. And I guess its a win win, manufacturers gets customers and customers gets the blade they want. So why could this be a problem, or is it? These two markets that also sometimes overlap. "Mainly aimed for export" is also of course used by Nepalis, so the distinction may sometimes be a hard one, or nonexistent. Visiting any of the Khukurihouses in Thamel one notices thats its very much like any business under hard competition, they will tell you a good story, tru or not. And thats how the myths of the Khukuri is being kept alive. Also it neglects the very hard working people living in the hills and using the Khukuri everyday. I think their story should be heard more then the people selling Khukuris to westerners. They are the ones to learn from. Buy Khukuris from one or all Nepali manufacturers, I mean it. But please also seek knowledge about the people, their, lives, culture and traditions. And use of Khukuri. I think you could do a youtube video on this, you are very balanced, fair and also have good judgement. An Kirati man with a fulltang Khukuri, and an old picture from a time long gone.
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Post by theophilus736 on Apr 20, 2022 1:51:38 GMT
In all fairness, his products videos fair much better on the screw test.
For whatever that is worth..
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 20, 2022 2:35:35 GMT
In all fairness, his products videos fair much better on the screw test. For whatever that is worth.. I was unaware of his connection with Madras when posting the first two videos. But wouldn’t not say “his products videos fair much better on the screw test.” until he cuts a wood screw or rather attempts to. He made one? cut at a nail.
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Post by theophilus736 on Apr 20, 2022 21:02:52 GMT
He has videos where his kukris have less chipping when striking a screw.
For me, that doesn't mean anything. For him it clearly does.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 20, 2022 22:16:04 GMT
For me, that doesn't mean anything. For him it clearly does. I think you hit the nail on the head, pardon the pun.
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