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Post by nerdthenord on Feb 22, 2022 19:00:47 GMT
Anyone have any experience with one of these? I really want a .45 long colt cowboy action revolver and these are super cool. I love that these were used as the base for Roland Deschain's revolvers in the Dark Tower movie, instead of the more common 1873 single action army. www.uberti-usa.com/new-army-conversion-revolver
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tera
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Post by tera on Feb 22, 2022 23:46:53 GMT
The 1858 in it's original black powder variants are some of my favorite single-action "cowboy" revolvers. The quick-change cylinder system really set them apart. Probably not practical in a gunfight, but nice to have some cylinders preloaded at the range instead of constantly reloading.
The conversion model makes sense in that the 1858 has a top strap and is a little more structurally sound than most older designs. The balance is also nice, a bit forward to help with recoil. I have never fired one of the .45 Long Colt conversion models, but I imagine they are decent. Uberti fit, finish, and trigger feel can vary by the gun, but we had few returned for manufacturer repair. I think I can only remember 2 cases, and one was clearly user error.
The big question I have is about the price. That's almost twice list price for the black powder models and puts you solidly into the modern, well engineered firearm space. There are lots of other revolvers you may enjoy for that amount of scratch, so I'd think hard on whether or not this model has the right "value" from your perspective. Nobody can decide that but you.
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Post by nerdthenord on Feb 23, 2022 0:28:31 GMT
The 1858 in it's original black powder variants are some of my favorite single-action "cowboy" revolvers. The quick-change cylinder system really set them apart. Probably not practical in a gunfight, but nice to have some cylinders preloaded at the range instead of constantly reloading. The conversion model makes sense in that the 1858 has a top strap and is a little more structurally sound than most older designs. The balance is also nice, a bit forward to help with recoil. I have never fired one of the .45 Long Colt conversion models, but I imagine they are decent. Uberti fit, finish, and trigger feel can vary by the gun, but we had few returned for manufacturer repair. I think I can only remember 2 cases, and one was clearly user error. The big question I have is about the price. That's almost twice list price for the black powder models and puts you solidly into the modern, well engineered firearm space. There are lots of other revolvers you may enjoy for that amount of scratch, so I'd think hard on whether or not this model has the right "value" from your perspective. Nobody can decide that but you. Thanks for the take on it. Since I already have a Glock 19, this would be a “fun” piece and definitely not intended for every day carry. I’ll look into the black powder version as well but the .45 colt conversion seems to be more of what I’m looking for. There are absolutely cheaper cartridge revolvers out there but I don’t consider this unaffordable, maybe slightly on the high end of affordable for me. The true value for me is owning a functional and practical “Cowboy” revolver, given I’m a HUGE Stephen King Dark Tower fan and a moderate firearm fan.
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Post by Eric Bergeron on Feb 24, 2022 2:45:52 GMT
The 1858 is by far my favorite cowboy gun and then you have Clint Eastwood in Pale Ryder wielding one in the climatic finale just makes it even more sweet.
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Post by nerdthenord on Feb 24, 2022 12:10:47 GMT
The 1858 is by far my favorite cowboy gun and then you have Clint Eastwood in Pale Ryder wielding one in the climatic finale just makes it even more sweet. It’s a beautiful piece for sure. I’m bouncing between an 1858 conversion, an 1858 navy conversion in .38 (WAY cheaper ammo than .45 colt) and an 1875 Remington cartridge gun.
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tera
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Post by tera on Feb 24, 2022 16:40:18 GMT
Weird advice? You might consider ahead about whether or not you'd like a lever gun. Ballisticly, pistol and rifle have different goals and requirements. Logistically, there is something to be said about having them both in the same caliber.
I know a lot of folks choose to go with Glock Magazine fed PCC's so they have interchangeability with their pistol. Keeps ammo purchasing simple and, in this case, let's you exchange magazines with a spouse in a home invasion scenario if things get awful.
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Post by nerdthenord on Feb 24, 2022 16:59:22 GMT
Weird advice? You might consider ahead about whether or not you'd like a lever gun. Ballisticly, pistol and rifle have different goals and requirements. Logistically, there is something to be said about having them both in the same caliber. I know a lot of folks choose to go with Glock Magazine fed PCC's so they have interchangeability with their pistol. Keeps ammo purchasing simple and, in this case, let's you exchange magazines with a spouse in a home invasion scenario if things get awful. That’s actually REALLY good advice. I just looked and Henry makes their level action rifles in .357/.38, .45 colt, and others. So if I do end up with a .357/.38 Remington revolver I can use the same ammo in a lever gun later.
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tera
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Post by tera on Feb 24, 2022 17:42:46 GMT
While less traditional-looking than other offerings, the Henry Big-Boy is available in both .45 LC and .38 spl/.357 magnum. It comes with a picatinny rail for optic and factory threaded muzzle for suppressor.
So, both have pros and cons.
.38 spl in the revolver lets you also use it in the lever-gun for lighter recoil, but step up the punching power by going to .357 Magnum. Just keep your ammo straight. You'd have usability of two types of ammo in the lever gun if one gets scarce, but also complicate your supply chain.
.45 LC does have factory subsonic loads. So, if you want a hand cannon you could get the 1858 conversion and the lever gun to match. Then, if you want some giggles, get a .45 rated suppressor and shoot HEAVY but subsonic loads out of the lever gun. No port/action noise on that platform as it is lever action and with a barrel that long the powder would have plenty of time to burn before you run out of bore.
Bonus in either case, but especially the latter many people have found that the best engineered .45 suppressors out there also suppress other pistol calibers very well. Some choose to buy an Octane .45 instead of an Octane 9 purely for the versatility. So, you could also use that can on your Glock in 9mm with the right thread pitched piston.
There are at least two companies producing true multi caliber suppressors designed for rifle pressures but usable on pistols, too. You might give the SilencerCo Hybrids a look. They have two models, one with a .46 bore rated for .338 Lapua Magnum pressures. So, one suppressor could be effectively used on every firearm you've posted about so far (AR-15 in 5.56 NATO, Glock 19 in 9mm, potential .38 spl/.357 Magnum, potential .45 LC). And yes, they can be configured to run on semi-auto pistols and still cycle properly.
Now, suppressors are legal in most US States but not all. So, if you live in a non-permissive State ignore all the above. Just trying to help think ahead. Buy once, cry once.
As always, stay safe!
EDIT: I should note I haven't reviewed the barrel twist rate of the Henry big boy for suitability with subsonic velocities. Honestly, I'd recommend contacting the manufacturer to confirm that. Make sure to mention you are talking subsonic FACTORY loads, not handloads.
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Post by nerdthenord on Feb 24, 2022 22:26:29 GMT
While less traditional-looking than other offerings, the Henry Big-Boy is available in both .45 LC and .38 spl/.357 magnum. It comes with a picatinny rail for optic and factory threaded muzzle for suppressor. So, both have pros and cons. .38 spl in the revolver lets you also use it in the lever-gun for lighter recoil, but step up the punching power by going to .357 Magnum. Just keep your ammo straight. You'd have usability of two types of ammo in the lever gun if one gets scarce, but also complicate your supply chain. .45 LC does have factory subsonic loads. So, if you want a hand cannon you could get the 1858 conversion and the lever gun to match. Then, if you want some giggles, get a .45 rated suppressor and shoot HEAVY but subsonic loads out of the lever gun. No port/action noise on that platform as it is lever action and with a barrel that long the powder would have plenty of time to burn before you run out of bore. Bonus in either case, but especially the latter many people have found that the best engineered .45 suppressors out there also suppress other pistol calibers very well. Some choose to buy an Octane .45 instead of an Octane 9 purely for the versatility. So, you could also use that can on your Glock in 9mm with the right thread pitched piston. There are at least two companies producing true multi caliber suppressors designed for rifle pressures but usable on pistols, too. You might give the SilencerCo Hybrids a look. They have two models, one with a .46 bore rated for .338 Lapua Magnum pressures. So, one suppressor could be effectively used on every firearm you've posted about so far (AR-15 in 5.56 NATO, Glock 19 in 9mm, potential .38 spl/.357 Magnum, potential .45 LC). And yes, they can be configured to run on semi-auto pistols and still cycle properly. Now, suppressors are legal in most US States but not all. So, if you live in a non-permissive State ignore all the above. Just trying to help think ahead. Buy once, cry once. As always, stay safe! EDIT: I should note I haven't reviewed the barrel twist rate of the Henry big boy for suitability with subsonic velocities. Honestly, I'd recommend contacting the manufacturer to confirm that. Make sure to mention you are talking subsonic FACTORY loads, not handloads. Fortunately (in some cases) I’m in Texas. I’ve decided on a 1858 in .357/.38 OR a 1875 in .357/.38 due to ammo availability and cost.
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Post by kaotikross on Feb 25, 2022 8:32:05 GMT
Get the original and shoot that first. They're tons of fun. You can get the conversion cylinder later. That kind of breaks the price up a little. If you ever had any doubts those CW era guns could put a man down you won't after you shoot an 1858.
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tera
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Post by tera on Feb 25, 2022 15:38:56 GMT
That's not bad advice. Some models of black powder revolvers can be made to shoot cartridges with a cylinder swap. We had to be careful about that in Firearms Operations as the ATF cares about that difference.
The model OP linked to, though, has more than just a cylinder swap. They updated the breach face, added a loading gate, and an ejector assembly. So, it is like an 1858 hybridized with later engineering. It's a neat concept, and I guess that's why the price jumps. More machine time.
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Post by nerdthenord on Feb 28, 2022 15:07:58 GMT
That's not bad advice. Some models of black powder revolvers can be made to shoot cartridges with a cylinder swap. We had to be careful about that in Firearms Operations as the ATF cares about that difference. The model OP linked to, though, has more than just a cylinder swap. They updated the breach face, added a loading gate, and an ejector assembly. So, it is like an 1858 hybridized with later engineering. It's a neat concept, and I guess that's why the price jumps. More machine time. Hey Terra, I’ve a question. What are your thoughts on the 1851? I found one in .38 special in stock and was wondering if they were a good model. It’s the one distributed by Cimmeron and made by one of the Italian companies, unclear which exactly.
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tera
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Post by tera on Feb 28, 2022 17:38:03 GMT
I'll lead by saying I have little experience with the 1851's apart from knowing they sold well where I worked in black powder form and were often people's first black powder pistol. I believe they were even sold in kits that included all the supplies you'd need to get started minus the powder (due to US regulations).
My "gut" reaction is hesitant. It is true the 1851 was Historically made in .38 spl by the original manufacturer in the later years, but only a few thousand of those were made and the originals can be hard to get. So, the Italian reproduction is an economical way to get at this specific model if it's the cowbiy action wheel-gun your after.
Why do I hesitate? No real-world reasons or data to back it up. I am just nervous about revolvers using modern cartridges that lack top straps. I suspect at the very least that is why these are available in .38 spl and not both .38 spl and .357 Magnum. I think .357 Magnum pressures would grenade the thing.
So, that's purely personal preference. They wouldn't still be mass produced if they weren't safe. I'm just an over-engineering kind of guy. If you are careful with not running hot loads and like the style, it is widely popular so go for it. My preferences shouldn't translate into yours.
As usual, I'd recommend trying the 1858 and 1851 in the hand before buying, to check for good hand-fitment.
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Post by Eric Bergeron on Feb 28, 2022 21:23:16 GMT
1851 in .38spl is very popular in the Single Action Shooting Society or SASS. Some people buy them from Cimmeron directly they get their guns usually through Uberti thought some other models are from Pietta. Some people go the buy a BP only 51 and buy the cartridge conversion so they can shoot traditional BP & cartridge with the same gun. I've owned both 1851 & 1858 in both BP form and bought the cartridge conversion for the 1858, I just went with the factory conversion on the 1851. They are fun guns and I wish I still had them.
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Post by exeter on Mar 1, 2022 19:12:06 GMT
I've owned and used M1911s, Glocks, S&W and Ruger revolvers, and out of all of them, the one I've found to be the most natural pointing handgun is my 1851 Navy replica. Aiming it is like pointing your finger.
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Post by nerdthenord on Mar 1, 2022 20:01:16 GMT
I've owned and used M1911s, Glocks, S&W and Ruger revolvers, and out of all of them, the one I've found to be the most natural pointing handgun is my 1851 Navy replica. Aiming it is like pointing your finger. Nice. How was the ejection rod? It seems kinda awkward with how you have to bend it before the pull.
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Post by exeter on Mar 1, 2022 23:13:09 GMT
I've owned and used M1911s, Glocks, S&W and Ruger revolvers, and out of all of them, the one I've found to be the most natural pointing handgun is my 1851 Navy replica. Aiming it is like pointing your finger. Nice. How was the ejection rod? It seems kinda awkward with how you have to bend it before the pull. Mine is the black powder model, so it has a loading lever instead of an ejection rod. Single action revolvers as a class are going to be more complicated and awkward in their loading/unloading than any modern handgun. But they are fascinating to handle and shoot as part of the history of handgun development. I'll second what tera said, keep an open top design to standard .38 special ammunition. Higher pressure will be too much stress for that design. If you want to hot rod your ammo, buy a Ruger single action. Those things are built like tanks.
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Alan Schiff
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Post by Alan Schiff on Mar 1, 2022 23:28:36 GMT
Personally I'd go with the factory converted if looking at .38 caliber. The issue regarding getting any cap and ball and a separate conversion cylinder is that, in converting .36bp to .38 special, the .357 caliber bullets are slightly smaller than the .36 bore, so accuracy suffers. The factory conversion is specifically designed to use the modern .38 special ammo, so this is not a problem.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 11, 2022 3:02:52 GMT
Holy mackerel that price! I know, the conversion. I have one of from Uberti’s original run that I paid well under $100 for, $69, $79? Too long ago and can’t remember exactly, that was back in the late 60s I believe. That was a great pistol. From a rest I could shoot 1 hole groups at 25 yds from a rest. I had many a chance to sell it. I gave it a trigger job and heightened the front sight. My grandson now has it. It put the Colt copies to shame in every respect. It took some experimenting but I finally found out how maintain it loaded and fire reliably although I never went past two weeks but it would go longer. Back then misfires begin the second day after loading. It’s been decades since I fooled with it, long before the Internet so others by now have probably solved the problem by now also.
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Post by drakegmbh on Jul 23, 2022 5:16:52 GMT
Anyone have any experience with one of these? I really want a .45 long colt cowboy action revolver and these are super cool. I love that these were used as the base for Roland Deschain's revolvers in the Dark Tower movie, instead of the more common 1873 single action army. www.uberti-usa.com/new-army-conversion-revolverThis is a bit old now, but it seems this part of the forum doesn't move at a brisk pace anyhow. I've had one of those 1858 conversions for a few years now. It certainly doesn't handle or shoot like a 'conversion', it doesn't feel clunky or bodged-together in the least. It is quite hefty with its 8" barrel, falling between the Schofield and Walker in terms of heft and size. It does retain the percussion hammer. It has a fixed firing pin in the breech ring. Here are a few photos of my 1858 Conversion.   
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