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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 12, 2022 18:20:15 GMT
Anyone got any experience with Rock Island 1911 pistols? I want to eventually get a 1911 but I can't really justify paying a grand for an obsolete 111 year old gun that would essentially be a range toy considering I have a Glock 19 gen 5 for actual use. All I want is a 1911 that works and doesn't jam up every time, doesn't need to be super fancy factory.
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tera
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Post by tera on Jan 12, 2022 18:40:50 GMT
They aren't great, and the fit/finish match the price, but they reputedly run pretty well. We sold several back in my gun shop days and didn't have one come back in to be sent off for repair that I know of. I've though about buying one before, myself. Some of my co-workers were gunsmiths. They'd buy RI 1911's cheap, fit a few replacement internals, and suddenly you had a good firearm. I have an old Taurus 1911 from when they were the only affordable model on the market. After a friend swapped out and hand-fit a few internals it had a nicer trigger than some of the $1k+ models we sold. People give me crap for owning a Taurus, then I let them shoot it. They get quiet when they group better with a "cheap" pistol than their off-the-shelf Kimber or Wilson Combat. It helps to know a good 1911 gunsmith.  EDIT: Given your hand size, I'd recommend trying on a 1911 with a bobtail frame and consider allumagrips. The bobtail may make the front-to-rear fit of the grip moreM comfortable and allumagrips let you machine the grip panels thinner than most other materials. If none of that feels good, you can have a smith install a shorter trigger shoe. Whatever you buy, it's not money well spentM unless it fits you. Tey a lot of models on, even if they are out of your budget, and see what you can comfortably operate without changing your proper shooting grip (with bore-axis aligned to forearm, etc, as discussed in your Glock thread). |
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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 12, 2022 19:32:51 GMT
They aren't great, and the fit/finish match the price, but they reputedly run pretty well. We sold several back in my gun shop days and didn't have one come back in to be sent off for repair that I know of. I've though about buying one before, myself. Some of my co-workers were gunsmiths. They'd buy RI 1911's cheap, fit a few replacement internals, and suddenly you had a good firearm. I have an old Taurus 1911 from when they were the only affordable model on the market. After a friend swapped out and hand-fit a few internals it had a nicer trigger than some of the $1k+ models we sold. People give me crap for owning a Taurus, then I let them shoot it. They get quiet when they group better with a "cheap" pistol than their off-the-shelf Kimber or Wilson Combat. It helps to know a good 1911 gunsmith. EDIT: Given your hand size, I'd recommend trying on a 1911 with a bobtail frame and consider allumagrips. The bobtail may make the front-to-rear fit of the grip moreM comfortable and allumagrips let you machine the grip panels thinner than most other materials. If none of that feels good, you can have a smith install a shorter trigger shoe. Whatever you buy, it's not money well spentM unless it fits you. Tey a lot of models on, even if they are out of your budget, and see what you can comfortably operate without changing your proper shooting grip (with bore-axis aligned to forearm, etc, as discussed in your Glock thread). Thanks. This is obviously an airsoft replica of a commander length 1911 but how does the grip axis look? imgur.com/a/wrC76ja |
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tera
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Post by tera on Jan 12, 2022 19:57:46 GMT
Not bad, but can you operate the safety and magazine release without rolling your grip? Also, I'm guessing you might have too little trigger finger reach, which is fixable. You can have a shorter trigger shoe installed aftermarket. For example, note the mods I had to do to fit my hand (also note my short fingers...): extended slide release, shorter shoe, and allumagrips on my taurus:  |
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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 12, 2022 23:16:10 GMT
Not bad, but can you operate the safety and magazine release without rolling your grip? Also, I'm guessing you might have too little trigger finger reach, which is fixable. You can have a shorter trigger shoe installed aftermarket. For example, note the mods I had to do to fit my hand (also note my short fingers...): extended slide release, shorter shoe, and allumagrips on my taurus: I can release the safety but not engage it. I can’t reach the mag release one handed but I hold it in a tactical two handed grip with my left thumb ready to engage the mag release. |
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Post by Eric Bergeron on Jan 13, 2022 3:36:15 GMT
I've owned several 1911's over the years from Rock Island, Springfield Armory, Kimber and Colt. The worst was the Rock Island but I used that one as a training pistol on dismantling and putting back together. The best one was my Colt Wiley Clapp commander 1911, close second was the Kimber TLE1911 which I was amazed had 0 issues. I'd suggest what Tera did go for a Taurus and have it taken to a good 1911 gunsmith, Taurus got a bad name for themselves years ago and they have improved leaps since then but people still remember the old past.
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Post by Alexander on Jan 13, 2022 11:03:33 GMT
Dont buy it. Some of the budget 1911s can be really good or crap.Rock Island, Tisas, Girsan all have varying customer support if you do get a stinker.; Other option is spending a couple hundred bucks making it right if you can. Best advice I can give is spend a little extra on the front end and save yourself a ton of bs. Best bang for the buck right now is the Springfield Armory Garrison.Is good to go out of the box and comes with just a few customs touches. Flat main spring housing,beaver tail, novak type sights, extended trigger. Should be able to get one around $700
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tera
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Post by tera on Jan 13, 2022 16:08:19 GMT
I tend to agree with the other folks, but if you can't afford any better, an RI CAN be made to run and run well... but keep in mind a 1911 is not a Glock. You need to know what you're doing to tune a 1911, and most people I knew who bought them were gunsmiths or knew one. Or, if you want a first 1911 to try tinkering with but don't want to break the bank, have at it. Just please get training first and don't mess with the trigger/sear/hammer geometries unless you have been thoroughly schooled on how to do so by an instructor.
I don't regard Taurus's as great guns. They're functional, and typically reliable, but they are not high-end. We used to groan every time a customer bought a Millenium G2A/C (though they were some of our best sellers). Also, they took away their lifetime warranty except for grandfathered in models (like mine), then brought it back only for select models. As much as my Taurus is a "sleeper" that is only because I had a professional gunsmith put some Wilson Combat internals in there and properly fit everything. Today, I could buy a better brand for about the same money, they just didn't provide those options back then.
In 1911s, details matter. In my experience RI guns have had looser tolerances and tend to function "fine" but need some TLC. So, you could go for a cheap RI and live with it, have it professionally tuned, or go for a better known brand. I don't recommend a more expensive RI 1911. At $700+ you should be looking at other brands. Kimber has some reasonably priced models, and I like Springfield Armory but some models are made domestically and some are imported. Be sure to check. They had a 1911A1 "GI" model a few years back they touted as the ultimate reproduction of US issue in WWII, but they were made in Brazil. Also, I've had returns for repair for Kimbers and even Colts, so nobody's perfect.
So, do try several on. In addition to the usual trigger finger/muzzle discipline, don't drop the slide on an empty chamber on a 1911. Ride the slide closed slowly. Some people don't care. Some people would look at you like you murdered a puppy. And wherever possible, get one new in box. Don't buy the display that has been handled by every yahoo out there, left with load on the mainspring for weeks or months, etc. Insist on inspecting the ACTUAL gun that is new in box to verify fit, finish, function. You can't just "return" a gun unless you it has a manufacturer defect so make sure the one with the serial number to be tied to you is the one you want to take home. If no 1911 fits you, come back here and let us chime in. There are a number of other handguns out there with very nice triggers that may fit you better.
As with any firearm intended for self defense, I recommend putting AT LEAST two full boxes of the ammo you intend to carry through it before carrying. 1-200 rounds would be better to ensure THAT ammo feeds and functions well. If you experience frequent issues, try switching ammo (both grain and geometry). If it's still a dud, you probably need a gunsmith to look it over and may have to send the firearm to the manufacturer for testing and repair. That can be a long wait, depending on the manufacturer. At the start of the Covid outbreak, Taurus was forecasting 6 month lead time at the soonest. I left the industry around then so no idea how the waits are now.
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Post by sonofarwyn on Jan 13, 2022 19:22:24 GMT
I grew up with 1911s. The RIA guns are damn good for the money, so are the recent Turkish import guns.
I have owned them all. I kept two, a Springfield Operator and the RIA. I would sell the Springfield first. There is a good point about customer service with the imports, but to be fair, Springfields customer service isnt setting the world on fire, and I have had to use them the most of all the stuff I own.
Unfortunately, 1911s are like designer Jean's in the 1980s. A lot of what you pay for is someone's name, and it generally isnt worth it. Kimber, for example, is overpriced for what you get, and are notoriously finicky. Old series 70 Colts are great, but you will pay a premium for them.
1911s are proven, after all they are a century old, as such they should be utterly bug free at this point, and as such, reliable. A lot of the 1911 market is simply overpriced right now, mostly due to the fad cult of the 1911. And when you see 1911s over a grand, they should be running like a sewing machine. Most dont.
My RIA has been utterly reliable, even with steel cased stuff. I think it's worth the money. My Springfield has had issues, but has always run well. The two Kimbers I have owned were both pains about ammo and magazines. I got rid of them. I like the SIG 1911s I have shot, but have a hard time justifying the price tag. I got to shoot a custom Nighthawk, and that was a gorgeous gun, but I could buy a motorcycle for what that gun was worth.
In short, the RIA and Turk guns are generally a safe investment. You should get a decent 1911 for at or under $500. A good tuning will get you a totally solid gun, and still keep you under a grand. A newer Taurus should be ok, but I take that with a pinch of salt.
If your going to go higher, the SIG and CZ 1911s are pretty solid, if pricey. Old Colts are a good buy if you can find them for a decent price.
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tera
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Post by tera on Jan 13, 2022 20:02:57 GMT
Perhaps in a self contradictory way I also agree with sonofarwyn.
RI's low end offerings are akin to my Taurus. That said, they aren't outright garbage, they just aren't "great" out of the box. I have handled some that were stupidly amazing, but again I know gunsmiths. They like them because they are cheap and relatively easy to upgrade. If you want that quality fit and finish from factory, you do have to pay more for a premium model.
Fundamentally, there is no such thing as a "factory" 1911, IMO. There are a few places where hand-fitment is just required or it won't run right. Between brands, it's like Chinese production swords vs. High-end Nihonto. There's a quality gradient. I say an RI or Taurus 1911 is like buying good steel, but for a quality feel plan on a rewrap. That said, even gritty, creepy 1911 triggers can feel worlds better than a stock Glock trigger. The problem/blessing there is you don't know any better yet. One curse from working at a firearms vendor is you get to play with the expensive stuff. Once you get used to a nicely tuned, $3000+ gun, it is hard to cope with stock. That's why Taurus polymer pistols make me cringe.
Having said that, if I'm honest, I am most accurate (and with the shortest split times) with that Taurus 1911 than any other pistol I (currently) own. A little love goes a long way. The last time I took it to a class my instructor told me to increase my cadence because my groups were "too tight" and you done need to hit a button hole everytime for defensive scenarios. Not bad for a low-end gun. The best pistol I ever owned was an HK P7M8. I never should have sold that thing. Look up the current pricing on those....
Also, keep in mind that some of the pricier brands use MiM (Metal injected molded) parts, too. A fancier name doesn't always translate to a better made gun, just like Springfield outsourcing some models to Brazil. There are a few manufacturers (other than Colt) that still make series 70 1911s if you are super snooty about trigger feel. I've been out of the game a while so I can't say who still is making series 70s for sure, but ask a gunstore clerk. If they don't know, thank them and walk out.
So, yeah, are their better production 1911's than RI? Absolutely, LOTS. Are RI 1911's worthless junk? Not from what I've seen, and certainly not when given a few touches by a qualified smith. Do you always get what you pay for? No. Some manufacturers charge for the name.
Of course, none of this matters if it doesn't fit and you can't comfortable operate it. No amount of money will make a firearm that fits you poorly feel or perform well.
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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 13, 2022 20:56:57 GMT
Thanks for the info everyone. If I get one, it would likely be a Rock Island and have it fine tuned IF it needs it.
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tera
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Post by tera on Jan 13, 2022 21:02:27 GMT
As an added note. The 1911 design is over a century old, but still around for a reason. I've trusted my life to that Taurus many a day as my carry choice.
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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 16, 2022 0:01:31 GMT
Also, obviously not a real 1911, but I added some Pachmayr rosewood and rubber grips to my airsoft combat commander. Very comfortable, and significantly more comfortable for tight and prolonged grips than the diamond grips, but it does shift my grip axis. It makes for a beautiful piece though and if I get a real 1911 I may try them on it, just trying out.  |
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tera
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Post by tera on Jan 16, 2022 1:12:40 GMT
I've been tempted by the Recover Tactical grip panels that add a forward pic. rail under a standard dust cover, but it would make the firearm no longer fit. And fitment is a priority for me.
On that airsoft 1911 you've got 3 correctable things working against you for proper fit. First, the wood/overmold grip panels. Those add a lot of width to the frame and extend the length with the finger grooves. I'd guess you can't get more than the tips of your fingers past the midline of the frame without torquing your grip, similar to how your Glock fits for your non-trigger fingers. So, that's two problems in one solvable by going with slimmer grips with NO finger grooves. Problem 3 is the traditional mainspring housing. Scroll up and look at the rear of the frame of my 1911 beneath the grip safety. My mainspring housing is so flat you can't even see it from the profile.
So, there is a lot of fat that can be trimmed down to make the firearm/airsoft replica fit you better. If you have stubby fingers like I do, fat or long grips aren't conducive to control (or accuracy) no matter how comfortable it may feel in the hand. Two-handed grips can be helpful, but developing one-hand proficiency with BOTH hands individually is an important life skill.
I always thought those grips looked great, too, but they just don't work for me. Similarly, I just HAD to get a telestock for my mp5 clone because... 1980's, man. Now that I have it, I have to admit the cheek weld is less comfortable than other options.
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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 16, 2022 1:27:45 GMT
I've been tempted by the Recover Tactical grip panels that add a forward pic. rail under a standard dust cover, but it would make the firearm no longer fit. And fitment is a priority for me. On that airsoft 1911 you've got 3 correctable things working against you for proper fit. First, the wood/overmold grip panels. Those add a lot of width to the frame and extend the length with the finger grooves. I'd guess you can't get more than the tips of your fingers past the midline of the frame without torquing your grip, similar to how your Glock fits for your non-trigger fingers. So, that's two problems in one solvable by going with slimmer grips with NO finger grooves. Problem 3 is the traditional mainspring housing. Scroll up and look at the rear of the frame of my 1911 beneath the grip safety. My mainspring housing is so flat you can't even see it from the profile. So, there is a lot of fat that can be trimmed down to make the firearm/airsoft replica fit you better. If you have stubby fingers like I do, fat or long grips aren't conducive to control (or accuracy) no matter how comfortable it may feel in the hand. Two-handed grips can be helpful, but developing one-hand proficiency with BOTH hands individually is an important life skill. I always thought those grips looked great, too, but they just don't work for me. Similarly, I just HAD to get a telestock for my mp5 clone because... 1980's, man. Now that I have it, I have to admit the cheek weld is less comfortable than other options. Yeah the retractable stock on the MP5 is nowhere as comfortable as the fixed stock. I just get so frustrated with handguns because I have yet to find a single one that fits me “the way it should”. As for the grips on the airsoft 1911, I’ll be honest. I only put them on it to make it resemble the 1911 from the latest planet of the apes film. I just get so angry sometimes that my hands are too small for even small pistols. |
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Post by eastman on Jan 16, 2022 5:02:16 GMT
Yeah the retractable stock on the MP5 is nowhere as comfortable as the fixed stock. I just get so frustrated with handguns because I have yet to find a single one that fits me “the way it should”. As for the grips on the airsoft 1911, I’ll be honest. I only put them on it to make it resemble the 1911 from the latest planet of the apes film. I just get so angry sometimes that my hands are too small for even small pistols.
Have you tried a CZ75, especially a 75 Compact? they have the best ergonomics to fit nearly everyone from tiny hands to giant meat-mitts.
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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 16, 2022 12:56:12 GMT
Yeah the retractable stock on the MP5 is nowhere as comfortable as the fixed stock. I just get so frustrated with handguns because I have yet to find a single one that fits me “the way it should”. As for the grips on the airsoft 1911, I’ll be honest. I only put them on it to make it resemble the 1911 from the latest planet of the apes film. I just get so angry sometimes that my hands are too small for even small pistols.
Have you tried a CZ75, especially a 75 Compact? they have the best ergonomics to fit nearly everyone from tiny hands to giant meat-mitts.
No. I’ve a friend who owns one but he’s all ghr way across the states. I’ll check it out though. Thanks. |
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Post by eastman on Jan 16, 2022 16:24:25 GMT
Have you tried a CZ75, especially a 75 Compact? they have the best ergonomics to fit nearly everyone from tiny hands to giant meat-mitts.
No. I’ve a friend who owns one but he’s all ghr way across the states. I’ll check it out though. Thanks.
If you were closer, I'd say time for a range trip.
A couple years ago I went to the range with one of my co-workers. I brought a steel-frame CZ 75 Compact with me. My co-worker tried it and loved the feel. He is the "gigantic meat-mitts" part of the equation. He bought one of the tricked-out CZ Custom compact pistols about 2 weeks later.
One of the employees working at that gunshop had never tried a CZ, so I brought her out on the range. Ruthie is 90-something pounds soaking wet with tiny hands. She shot the 75 Compact quite well and enjoyed the feel in her hands.
Me, I am in the middle between them in terms of hand size.
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tera
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Post by tera on Jan 16, 2022 17:54:51 GMT
Some ranges rent firearms so you can try them out. One near me does, anyway, and also has a Class 3 license. Rentable machineguns are fun, but burn through ammo unless you learn to burst (as you should!).
CZ in general is worth looking at. Either the classic CZ 75 (or compact) or the P-10 line (available in Full-, Compact-, and Sub-compact variants). The reason I mention the P-10 is not only is it fairly slim, the striker fire will be a shorter trigger pull than a 75 in DA, and the tigger experience is quality compared to most other strikers.
Then there's the HK VP Series. I'm a big fan of the VP 9. It is a bit of a bulky gun to look at, but it has interchangeable side panels as well as back-strap to help you fit it to your individual hand. Also, the overall contour is well thought-out, with subtle recesses just where it makes sense. The VP line have fully ambidextrous controls and can even be reloaded with one hand fairly easily if the gun clerk shows you the trick to it.
The Walther PPQ is another beefy looking pistol that still seems to fit most people despite appearances. It also comes with an extremely nice trigger for a striker-fired pistol. There was even some fuss amongst competitive shooters a few years ago about not wanting the PPQ to be classified as a "production" gun because of the trigger. Some of the PPQ guys were stomping everyone else and it didn't seem fair. My only negative on the PPQ is it isn't truly ambidextrous and it has a higher bore axis than I'd like. So, honestly, I circle back to the CZ P-10s.
As mentioned in another thread, the Glock 48 (now available in an MOS model meaning with fore rail and optic slide cut) is probably about perfect for you if you like the Glock 19. Same caliber, and same capacity as the 19 (with flush-fit, aftermarket, metal magazines) but in a stagger stack magazine design instead of a true double-stack. The result is a thinner overall pistol that fits small hands very well. Whenever someone was looking at a S&W Bodyguard I'd also ask them to try on a G48. Higher caliber, more grip for control, more capacity, less snappy to shoot, and still very concealable if that is a requirement.
Some models of S&W's M&P 2.0 line may also feel good. We had varying degrees of luck with them with small handed people. It came down to personal comfort and if they could comfortably operate it without having to do anything funky. Great guns, there was just a rough patch where it seemed like S&W was doing a recall every few months. The 2.0 line has been out long enough now that all the kinks should be worked out by now.
If you are willing to step down in caliber a bit, the sig P230/P232 are SMOOTH to shoot (but is a DA/SA so you might not like that first, long trigger pull). These are unfortunately discontinued but great finds. Also, there is a .380 1911-ish pistol made by Browning. It looks like a 1911 that got shrunk in the wash. The Browning 1911-380 Black Label Medallion Pro marches the aesthetic you like closely, but has an MSRP of over $900, which I find nuts for a .380. The basic black models go for less. Only caveat here is you get the look and feel of a 1911 in a size that is more accommodating to small hands at the trade-off of knowing NO standard 1911 part or holster will fit it. So, aftermarket options are limited.
I kind of wish I was back at my old work counter again. I used to be able to look at someone's hand and eyes and name 5+ different models off the top of my head that would fit well, but these days I've not kept up with latest offerings.
Oh, one thing that hasn't come up (but I'm guessing you've thought about) are "pocket pistols". Models designed for maximum concealment/deep carry like the S&W Bodyguard, Ruger LCP/LCP II (largely copies of the Kel-tec P3AT), Sig P938, Kimber Micro 9, etc. are all small, to be sure. I used to carry a Kel-tec P3AT as a back-up. HATED shooting it at the range for training. Tiny pistols have a few problems regarding comfortable shooting. First, with short barrels the recoil stroke is, well, short. So, the recoil spring has minimal time and distance to absorb energy before returning the slide to battery. The result is very snappy recoil that can sting your hand if you aren't ready. A tiny .380 can be more unpleasant to shoot than a 1911 in .45 ACP. Second, being small they have reduced grip surface. While this may seem better for people with small hands, it also means less surface area with which to control the firearm, so a generally more flippy recoil experience and usually awkward reloads. Third, with a few exceptions, these are generally very light, for easy of carry. Again, when it comes to reducing recoil, non-reciprocating mass is your friend. My 1911 has a stainless frame just because I wanted a lot of non-moving weight to have inertia for the recoil to work against. The result is my 1911's recoil is on level with some polymer .22lrs. So, in short, if you want something as a lawful, discrete carry any time of the year, pocket pistols work. However, if you want to enjoy shooting instead of it being a chore, stay away from the tiny ones.
So, to summarize, I'd say try on:
1) Glock 48 MOS. My guess at best fit.
2) CZ P-10 in any flavor. Amazing triggers and low bore axis.
3) HK VP 9 full-size (be sure to grip high on the gun). The gun for the worst day of your life.
4) Walther PPQ in 9mm. Known in competitions.
5) CZ 75 (Compact likely). Classic, reliable, accurate.
6) 1911 in 9mm with bobtail frame or flat mainspring housing (may need to replace mag release, safety, and/or trigger to make it fit). Good ones will spoil you with great triggers. Generally fussier than a Glock, but lives have been trusted to this design for over a Century for a reason.
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Post by nerdthenord on Jan 16, 2022 22:20:43 GMT
Some ranges rent firearms so you can try them out. One near me does, anyway, and also has a Class 3 license. Rentable machineguns are fun, but burn through ammo unless you learn to burst (as you should!). CZ in general is worth looking at. Either the classic CZ 75 (or compact) or the P-10 line (available in Full-, Compact-, and Sub-compact variants). The reason I mention the P-10 is not only is it fairly slim, the striker fire will be a shorter trigger pull than a 75 in DA, and the tigger experience is quality compared to most other strikers. Then there's the HK VP Series. I'm a big fan of the VP 9. It is a bit of a bulky gun to look at, but it has interchangeable side panels as well as back-strap to help you fit it to your individual hand. Also, the overall contour is well thought-out, with subtle recesses just where it makes sense. The VP line have fully ambidextrous controls and can even be reloaded with one hand fairly easily if the gun clerk shows you the trick to it. The Walther PPQ is another beefy looking pistol that still seems to fit most people despite appearances. It also comes with an extremely nice trigger for a striker-fired pistol. There was even some fuss amongst competitive shooters a few years ago about not wanting the PPQ to be classified as a "production" gun because of the trigger. Some of the PPQ guys were stomping everyone else and it didn't seem fair. My only negative on the PPQ is it isn't truly ambidextrous and it has a higher bore axis than I'd like. So, honestly, I circle back to the CZ P-10s. As mentioned in another thread, the Glock 48 (now available in an MOS model meaning with fore rail and optic slide cut) is probably about perfect for you if you like the Glock 19. Same caliber, and same capacity as the 19 (with flush-fit, aftermarket, metal magazines) but in a stagger stack magazine design instead of a true double-stack. The result is a thinner overall pistol that fits small hands very well. Whenever someone was looking at a S&W Bodyguard I'd also ask them to try on a G48. Higher caliber, more grip for control, more capacity, less snappy to shoot, and still very concealable if that is a requirement. Some models of S&W's M&P 2.0 line may also feel good. We had varying degrees of luck with them with small handed people. It came down to personal comfort and if they could comfortably operate it without having to do anything funky. Great guns, there was just a rough patch where it seemed like S&W was doing a recall every few months. The 2.0 line has been out long enough now that all the kinks should be worked out by now. If you are willing to step down in caliber a bit, the sig P230/P232 are SMOOTH to shoot (but is a DA/SA so you might not like that first, long trigger pull). These are unfortunately discontinued but great finds. Also, there is a .380 1911-ish pistol made by Browning. It looks like a 1911 that got shrunk in the wash. The Browning 1911-380 Black Label Medallion Pro marches the aesthetic you like closely, but has an MSRP of over $900, which I find nuts for a .380. The basic black models go for less. Only caveat here is you get the look and feel of a 1911 in a size that is more accommodating to small hands at the trade-off of knowing NO standard 1911 part or holster will fit it. So, aftermarket options are limited. I kind of wish I was back at my old work counter again. I used to be able to look at someone's hand and eyes and name 5+ different models off the top of my head that would fit well, but these days I've not kept up with latest offerings. Oh, one thing that hasn't come up (but I'm guessing you've thought about) are "pocket pistols". Models designed for maximum concealment/deep carry like the S&W Bodyguard, Ruger LCP/LCP II (largely copies of the Kel-tec P3AT), Sig P938, Kimber Micro 9, etc. are all small, to be sure. I used to carry a Kel-tec P3AT as a back-up. HATED shooting it at the range for training. Tiny pistols have a few problems regarding comfortable shooting. First, with short barrels the recoil stroke is, well, short. So, the recoil spring has minimal time and distance to absorb energy before returning the slide to battery. The result is very snappy recoil that can sting your hand if you aren't ready. A tiny .380 can be more unpleasant to shoot than a 1911 in .45 ACP. Second, being small they have reduced grip surface. While this may seem better for people with small hands, it also means less surface area with which to control the firearm, so a generally more flippy recoil experience and usually awkward reloads. Third, with a few exceptions, these are generally very light, for easy of carry. Again, when it comes to reducing recoil, non-reciprocating mass is your friend. My 1911 has a stainless frame just because I wanted a lot of non-moving weight to have inertia for the recoil to work against. The result is my 1911's recoil is on level with some polymer .22lrs. So, in short, if you want something as a lawful, discrete carry any time of the year, pocket pistols work. However, if you want to enjoy shooting instead of it being a chore, stay away from the tiny ones. So, to summarize, I'd say try on: 1) Glock 48 MOS. My guess at best fit. 2) CZ P-10 in any flavor. Amazing triggers and low bore axis. 3) HK VP 9 full-size (be sure to grip high on the gun). The gun for the worst day of your life. 4) Walther PPQ in 9mm. Known in competitions. 5) CZ 75 (Compact likely). Classic, reliable, accurate. 6) 1911 in 9mm with bobtail frame or flat mainspring housing (may need to replace mag release, safety, and/or trigger to make it fit). Good ones will spoil you with great triggers. Generally fussier than a Glock, but lives have been trusted to this design for over a Century for a reason. Thanks man. I’m gonna look into the CZ mentioned and the Glock 48. |
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