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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 8:50:08 GMT
Hi guys, first post.
I've started collecting katana's (more correctly SLO's) mainly just for wallhanging and the occasional cutting. In my reading, I've noticed that most of the stuff on ebay is scorned upon, namely the "fantastic beautiful razor sharp" chinese stuff. I purchased one for $80 AU on ebay from Katana1980 and so far it's done fine.
About the sword:
Mono-steel blade, etched hamon, fake rayskin, synthetic cord etc.
Out of the box it cut through a sheet of A4 paper nicely (i dunno what that means but I see it done in tests alot). It also makes light work of milk bottles and thicker soda bottles too - cuts and thrusts through them quite easily. I don't know how well it will hold up against tatami (because i can't afford that stuff). Apart from afew scratches on the blade, theres no real damage - and it hasn't fallen apart yet.
My question is, what am i missing out on?? Anything in the entry level Cheness range will set me back around 300AU! (even the musashi + masahiro stuff costs 200+) 80 bucks is a steal compared to that price.
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Post by YlliwCir on Sept 12, 2008 9:01:11 GMT
Hi, Phil, welcome. Glad you like your sword. I have found a few gems on ebay myself. Any chance of getting some pics?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 9:59:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 10:01:53 GMT
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Post by tajima on Sept 12, 2008 10:31:37 GMT
Not bad for $80. You should try some of the Musashi's cheap range. It has the same Menuki as the Oniyuri Cheness. :-)
Thanks, -Khalastas
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 11:32:08 GMT
quality of manufacture which relates to safety is the biggest issue with the "can chop iron!'" swords you get on ebay.
I can tell you that in the early days I thought all swords were created equal so the thought of one snapping in half on a bad cut an helicoptering across the yard to impale a spectator never even crossed my mind. After some training and much more research into what makes a good sword I wouldn't even take the chance on any of those swords anymore without some background on the manufacturing process.
to sum it up, proper forging is not cheap, proper heat treating is not cheap, proper fittings/finishing is not cheap. There have been some good inexpensive finds thanks to sites like this one, but with so many on ebay these days it really is just a roll of the dice.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 11:34:43 GMT
I am glad you like your sword but to answer the question >My question is, what am i missing out on??< SLO´s are not meant for cutting. I don´t know what type of steel your sword is of, and if it is heat treated. These two things make the difference. SLO´s are often made of stainless steel or alike. Stainless steel contains alot of chromium, which causes interctristaline oxidation, making the blade very fragile at a length of 70cm! When you cut with a sword, that has no reputation or that you don`t know exactly what it is, you threaten your life and that of those around you! I started with a SLO myself, for cutting. But I was lucky it turned out to be a real good sword! But thinking of what I´ve done without being sure what this sword actually is, I feel horrible. I would highly recommend to get yourself a real sword that you can be sure off it won`t crack and damage YOU. There is nothing wrong with collecting swords that don`t have any reputation but cutting with them can be a real mistake. I don`t want to freak you out, this is out of principle. The steel used and the heat treatment are two things that make big difference. And for 80Bugs you can`t expect any of these two. That´s why you should spend around 200Bugs for a real thing you can be sure of it is good. I bet for all the SLO´s you have, you could have one real nice beauty of a sword!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 12:13:19 GMT
SLO´s are not meant for cutting. I don´t know what type of steel your sword is of, and if it is heat treated. These two things make the difference. Fair enough. This leads to my next question - How do I know if a blade is heat treated (not differentially) and if it is stainless or carbon steel? Am I relying completely on the claims from the manufacturer? This is gonna turn out to be an expensive hobby...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 14:03:25 GMT
Welcome!
I confess: these days I've been "strolling at the Bay", too. And I also noticed these katana-like objects under 100 $ / € I've been thinking for some minutes. But then - these blades are sharp and I know myself. Soon after the blade would have arrived, I'd be seen in the garden testing it. And now imagine the blade snaps. I've seen blades snapping, the word 'helicoptering' is very precise. I don't think these blades can be trusted. So my guess is: maybe fine as wallhanger, but better not use it for cutting. If you're on a strict budget and even Hanwei is too expensive, then there are still reasonable katana-like swords available for less than 200 $/€ at a reliable local swordshop within your reach or at a trustworthy online shop, I'm sure.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 14:11:52 GMT
this is a good question! There is no way to tell what the steel used is composed of, unless you make chemical analysis. You have to rely on the productions claims. But, fair enough, common production lines can be made responsible for their products. This doesn`t mean the 1095 used is exactly a 1095 but it means if the steel is of minor quality or not even suitable for a blade at all all these blades will break and the company will be sued. Production companies buy their steel from manufacturers ready to be hammered. If you buy a sword from a big company you can rely on it, because these people have a legal responsability. Despite this, nearly every common unalloyed steel will be total suitable for a blade, if it`s heat treated right This is why production swords with good reputation are highly recommendable for sport-weapons and most of them do look beautiful. next thing would be the heat treatment. Heat treatment is crucial to a blades stability. You can have the best steel in the world, but if you mess up the heat treat it will be nothing but junk. This is in fact more important than having a perfect steel! There are many things that can go wrong during the heat treatment. Through hardened pieces are in fact easier to produce and if they are spring tempered they are nearly at a point of indistructability. But they don`t have hamon because they are not differentially hardened. It is hard to tell if a blade with faked hamon has indeed a real hamon beneath it but even harder to tell if it is hardened at all! So you want to be sure to buy from someone you can rely on and trust. And who would be better to trust, than somebody who is in charge of a big company and will be sued for all his money if he cheats you This hobby is indeed an expensive one. But in the years I chased the sword perfect for me I realised, if I had spend the right amount of money from the start one single blade would have satisfied me completely. @giraut Schöne Grüße aus Friedberg, Hessen
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 14:17:33 GMT
This hobby is indeed an expensive one. But in the years I chased the sword perfect for me I realised, if I had spend the right amount of money from the start one single blade would have satisfied me completely. Such wisdom! (Sometimes it takes that journey to realise it )
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Post by YlliwCir on Sept 12, 2008 20:21:34 GMT
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this as a SLO. There have been decent cutters bought for around this price. I got a Musashi for just a bit more that has cut a lot and held up well.
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Post by code on Sept 12, 2008 21:59:19 GMT
I agree, just because its cheap doesn't mean it's an SLO. However, philmydang, I can't be sure from the pictures but I don't see any mekugi pins in the handle, thats a pretty sure sign that it has a rat tail tang. An easy way to see if it's stainless would be to just put a fingerprint on it somewhere, and see if it rusts
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 22:22:37 GMT
even easier - stainless isn't magnetic
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2008 22:39:06 GMT
The lack of mekugi bothers me as well. I would also recommend you look at some of the lower end musashis if you're really on a shoestring at least you know they're not stainless steel and have a proper tang.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2008 1:11:16 GMT
even easier - stainless isn't magnetic I stuck a magnet on the blade and it didn't fall off... but i also did the same to a stainless steel fork and it stuck aswell.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2008 1:27:12 GMT
My apologies for introducing confusion. "Stainless" is actually a pretty broad term and doesn't refer to any specific composition. I am positive there are better metallurgists on this forum than me - but basically with stainless, chromium is added so that you get an oxided layer on the surface that keeps the metal from corroding(rusting). Scratch it up, and it just re-oxidizes. It is certainly possible to have magnetic stainless (tho it will be a bit less magnetic than straight iron). Nickel is another (the other?) common metal to alloy in and nickel does make stainless non-magnetic.
So, a great deal of the stainless will be non-magnetic, but not all of it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2008 4:39:50 GMT
The lack of mekugi bothers me as well. I would also recommend you look at some of the lower end musashis if you're really on a shoestring at least you know they're not stainless steel and have a proper tang. Yep has two mekugi pins, only visible from one side (other side) because they're inserted at an angle i think. I've read good things about musashi but the only problem is that the price of shipping to AU drives the total cost through the roof. (usually more than the cost of the actual sword)
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Post by tajima on Sept 13, 2008 8:41:14 GMT
Philmydang, Australia? Get them through Phil.
I have a Musashi AND a Cheness, next a Hanwei.
Thanks, -Tajima
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2008 10:16:08 GMT
I know there are things in this price range that can be used for cutting. But what takes it to figure this out? You can try it out and will probably find three nice swords that cut and don`t brake at the price of 50Bugs each. The fourth will break on event and hit your girlfriend. Why? Because you spend 200Bugs on things that could do it but you are not sure and you don`t have any legal backup and could have easily gotten a real sword for that price. There is no way to tell if the sword you bought is well made, of good steel and has proper heat treatment. But considering the price and aplying logic the chances are very low. And if only one of these three is not proper you are in danger. And of course, if you find one that is well made, it might be the next one from him is crap.
Big companies always have an image to protect. That´s why you will always get a replacement if your sword gets broken because if they did not, you could go public
China-forge Ebay sellers majorly do not have anything to loose and are not responsable.
I don`t want to point any fingers. Leave it to other people, like paul to figure out if a sword should be used or not. Why? Because he uses caution and safety protection to do it. And if he gets hurt, he knew exactly what he was doing.
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