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Post by snap on Aug 15, 2021 8:10:24 GMT
I am speaking specifically about medieval repros and by mid range let's say $350 to $600 usd.
The market has come a long way in recent decades. I think most of us would agree that companies have really upped their game in delivering what we consider desirable aspects of historal originals in terms of construction, handling, proportions and so on, while leaving undesirable qualities that can potentially be found on some originals. Although things like oversized openings, harsh handling, glaring asymmetries and yes, secondary bevels can sometimes be found on originals i think most of us would agree they're not desirable on a modern repro and should be avoided as much as the price point allows.
Which brings me to the problem I have. I think that with how much the market has progressed in recent years it's disappointing to see coarse, brutal secondary bevels past the budget range price point. While some companies may do this as a result of export law in their respective countries, it should still be seen, in my opinion, as not befitting of anything exceeding the budget price range. The market has progressed so much over the last two decades so I would like to see the community be less tolerant of this and more aggressively call it out to make companies still doing it up their game.
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Post by snap on Aug 15, 2021 9:28:58 GMT
Any specific examples you have seen of this to reference? Off the top of my head, Kingston arms, DSA and Del Tin. I could probably think of more |
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Post by snap on Aug 15, 2021 9:47:25 GMT
Off the top of my head, Kingston arms, DSA and Del Tin. I could probably think of more Got it. Just FYI. Del tin's are sold unsharpened period by Fulvio, any Del tin you see sharpened was done by someone else. Darksword armory is a whole other can of worms and there is a lot to get into with that one. Kingston Arms has no excuse though, imo. Cool, so you're on board with my premise about this type of edge being unacceptable past a certain price point |
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Post by snap on Aug 15, 2021 10:09:33 GMT
Cool, so you're on board with my premise about this type of edge being unacceptable past a certain price point Well sure, and I mean if Kingston arms is indeed made by Hanwei its not like they can't make swords without a secondary bevel. Just look at the katanas lol. However, which model is the secondary bevel on? All of em or is it just the hollow ground model? I don't own any KA stuff. Plus, there are secondary bevels and there are SECONDARY BEVELS. I would need to see it lol Well, I have the gus trim designed xiv from Kingston. It's otherwise fantastic and I can't praise it enough. But the secondary is absolutely brutal and about as raw and in your face as a secondary bevel can be. I've always had difficulty figuring out how to post pictures here so for now I'll need you to take my word for it. Another sword in my collection, the tinker viking (which I don't like nearly as much) has a more discreet and tolerable secondary bevel |
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Post by skelley on Aug 15, 2021 20:47:15 GMT
I took some pictures of my KA xiv sword with factory edge. Hope it comes clear. As said, it's still a fantastic sword, but I heard one person described it as an aggressive bevel and I can't really disagree. Still love it though.    |
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 15, 2021 21:26:23 GMT
As long as the sword feels nimble and lively in the hand I consider a secondary as some kind of niku.
If not the secondary bevel is a sign of a bad mass distribution, a too thick blade, perhaps designed for stage combat.
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Post by snap on Aug 15, 2021 22:22:05 GMT
Hello Skelley, thanks for the photos but would it be possible to have a photo a bit closer and horizontal so I can actually see the geometry of the bevel? I can't tell if it's a blended convex edge with just a higher polish then the rest of the surface or indeed an actual secondary bevel in the full sense of the term. it's the latter |
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Post by snap on Aug 15, 2021 22:49:12 GMT
So it has a pronounced shoulder, correct? it's a hard angle, yeah |
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Post by skelley on Aug 15, 2021 23:38:17 GMT
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Post by squalembrato on Aug 15, 2021 23:49:10 GMT
There is no excuse for a secondary bevel at all on the Kingston Arms. My Hanwei Early Medieval Single Hand Sword, the well regarded EMSHS, came with no discernible secondary bevel at all and was super easy to sharpen even more on mouse pad and sandpaper and strop on leather to a fine cutting edge.
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Post by Hardrada on Aug 15, 2021 23:57:55 GMT
My new Angus Trim sword came with very similar secondary bevels, I have to say I was surprised and disappointed - I did not expect that on a $1000+ sword.
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Post by pgandy on Aug 16, 2021 12:32:04 GMT
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Post by perignum on Aug 16, 2021 12:40:15 GMT
Apart from looking a bit gak, does a secondary bevel actually affect the performance of the sword?
I'd imagine in long lost days of blood and gore that lots of swords were sharpened and honed on wheels. Are many historical swords found with secondary bevels?
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Aug 16, 2021 12:45:59 GMT
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Post by snap on Aug 16, 2021 23:54:19 GMT
Apart from looking a bit gak, does a secondary bevel actually affect the performance of the sword? I'd imagine in long lost days of blood and gore that lots of swords were sharpened and honed on wheels. Are many historical swords found with secondary bevels? I addressed the issue of historal accuracy in the OP |
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Post by durinnmcfurren on Aug 17, 2021 0:20:19 GMT
Sandpaper and... MOUSEPAD? What?
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Post by RambleTree on Aug 17, 2021 2:31:52 GMT
Re: secondary bevels on the KA XIV I had one a couple years ago (and sold it) - I remember thinking that the edge wasn't too bad. Like, almost appleseed. I just got a new one from the recent restock (ordered on SBG Store), and was struck by the 'aggressiveness' of the secondary bevel - as others mentioned. I'm going to keep it, and not feel bad about it, due to all the other great qualities of this model (at this price point). But yeah, it's there. Definitely a difference from the previous piece I had; from what I assume is an earlier batch (sharpened at factory - or sharpened post-importing?) This is like "The Little Sword that Could", so I don't want to knock it too much  |
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Post by RambleTree on Aug 17, 2021 2:40:02 GMT
Also - it just occurred to me:
Having more 'meat' on a big-shoulder secondary bevel edge has one advantage from a customer perspective.
It gives you the option of customizing the edge to your liking.
i.e. you can remove material, but not add it.
Someone may have already mentioned this.
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Post by snap on Aug 17, 2021 4:56:50 GMT
Also - it just occurred to me: Having more 'meat' on a big-shoulder secondary bevel edge has one advantage from a customer perspective. It gives you the option of customizing the edge to your liking. i.e. you can remove material, but not add it. Someone may have already mentioned this. How many people buy a piece with the expectation that they'll be doing additional grinding on it, really? |
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Post by snap on Aug 17, 2021 5:02:05 GMT
Re: secondary bevels on the KA XIV I had one a couple years ago (and sold it) - I remember thinking that the edge wasn't too bad. Like, almost appleseed. I just got a new one from the recent restock (ordered on SBG Store), and was struck by the 'aggressiveness' of the secondary bevel - as others mentioned. I'm going to keep it, and not feel bad about it, due to all the other great qualities of this model (at this price point). But yeah, it's there. Definitely a difference from the previous piece I had; from what I assume is an earlier batch (sharpened at factory - or sharpened post-importing?) This is like "The Little Sword that Could", so I don't want to knock it too much This is why, if I end up making video reviews of my collection I would find this one the most interesting to review. It's otherwise just so damn impressive for it's price. But those brutal secondary bevels would give me something to stop and say "however, this is just not ok at this price point" and expand on my stance about how the industry should move past this |
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