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Post by Simpleman on Jun 29, 2021 22:20:32 GMT
Thanks for the link. My sense of the history of kukris is that they're marked more by variation than standardization. Even with British specs applied, variation was probably significant, being handmade and contracts going to the lowest bidder. What's the difficulty of reproducing an historical model? It seems like a good smith should be able to pull it off fairly easily in terms of size, shape, weight and grip style. Thats also my understanding. I think the problems in reproducing a historical model is best illustrated of that there are quite a lot of khukuris out there, lets say the MK 1 and MK 3, that may come close to original but also that differs greatly. Moving away from the issued ones to Kothimoras for instance, I just think that some of the skills isnt there anymore. One reason for this I think is that the interest isnt big enough, many are ok with a Khukuri being "close enough" in resemblence with a historical model. Also that many are using khukuris for outdoor or bushcraft. A historical one may be spot on, but it may not be the best tool for the job. I am talking about personal preferances with handle material, length of handle, different finishes, scabbards etc. All in all, while there are better or less good examples of good repros, I think the majority isnt very well executed.  |
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jun 30, 2021 2:21:18 GMT
Few soldiers dig foxholes anymore, I imagine. The shovel is still the infantryman's best defence against artillery - foxholes are still popular, and essential even. At the end of last century, I had a chat with a bandmate who was from Denmark. He'd done his compulsory military service and dug many foxholes in that time. The standard Danish foxhole, for two soldiers, was the size of a grave - just large enough for one soldier to lie down and sleep while the other stands. If up to half of unit is killed during a battle, they have all the pre-dug graves they need! |
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Post by randomnobody on Jun 30, 2021 15:30:31 GMT
Few soldiers dig foxholes anymore, I imagine. The shovel is still the infantryman's best defence against artillery - foxholes are still popular, and essential even. At the end of last century, I had a chat with a bandmate who was from Denmark. He'd done his compulsory military service and dug many foxholes in that time. The standard Danish foxhole, for two soldiers, was the size of a grave - just large enough for one soldier to lie down and sleep while the other stands. If up to half of unit is killed during a battle, they have all the pre-dug graves they need! I stand corrected. I suppose they're still pretty standard in training, and obviously some units do still use them in active hotspots, I'm just so accustomed to only hearing about bombs, missiles, and drones on the rare occasion I hear anything at all about military activity that I kinda forgot the infantry guys are still on the ground in various places. |
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Post by Murffy on Jun 30, 2021 16:48:38 GMT
Thanks for the link. My sense of the history of kukris is that they're marked more by variation than standardization. Even with British specs applied, variation was probably significant, being handmade and contracts going to the lowest bidder. What's the difficulty of reproducing an historical model? It seems like a good smith should be able to pull it off fairly easily in terms of size, shape, weight and grip style. Thats also my understanding. I think the problems in reproducing a historical model is best illustrated of that there are quite a lot of khukuris out there, lets say the MK 1 and MK 3, that may come close to original but also that differs greatly. Moving away from the issued ones to Kothimoras for instance, I just think that some of the skills isnt there anymore. One reason for this I think is that the interest isnt big enough, many are ok with a Khukuri being "close enough" in resemblence with a historical model. Also that many are using khukuris for outdoor or bushcraft. A historical one may be spot on, but it may not be the best tool for the job. I am talking about personal preferances with handle material, length of handle, different finishes, scabbards etc. All in all, while there are better or less good examples of good repros, I think the majority isnt very well executed. My thought is that kukri making is an unbroken tradition, unlike many swords where smiths have to resurrect the past. This doesn't mean techniques can't be lost but it seems like most should be preserved pretty well. Regarding the link above to this article: It makes an interesting point that militaries relied on their Napalese soldiers to know how to use a kukri because they would have grown up with them, but it modern times that isn't always the case, so the Nepalese military "cobbled" together techniques from different martial arts as a way of training the soldiers in the use of the knives. I'd like to know which martial arts. I'd guess kali would be among them since the kukri seems well suited to that style of fighting. Edit: Also interesting how a lot of fighting styles are not encoded in a systematic tradition. |
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Post by Simpleman on Jun 30, 2021 17:39:58 GMT
Regarding the link above to this article: It makes an interesting point that militaries relied on their Napalese soldiers to know how to use a kukri because they would have grown up with them, but it modern times that isn't always the case, so the Nepalese military "cobbled" together techniques from different martial arts as a way of training the soldiers in the use of the knives. I'd like to know which martial arts. I'd guess kali would be among them since the kukri seems well suited to that style of fighting. Edit: Also interesting how a lot of fighting styles are not encoded in a systematic tradition. Guessing/speculating hat on: From what I have seen it looks very much like when Karate was introduced to mainland Japan, formalised, rather stiff and done in groups. It looks like kata, with different stances and pauses. But this perticular subject, is something I know little about. Looking throughout the commonwealth there are maori warriors, and sikhs, and they also are using a lot of weapons. Earning The Kukri: Learning To Use The Iconic Weapon Sikh showing basic techniques Then there is Bando, with a not so much straightforward history. That is, a disputed history. In short I do not know. |
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Post by Simpleman on Jul 5, 2021 16:59:01 GMT
Thanks for the link. I have not bought any kukri as a repro. My attraction to the Aitihasik is that I’m satisfied with the lines, specs, and price. I realize the grip of the Aitihasik isn’t exactly correct for an antique and I have no doubt that Tamang will change on my request, for an additional price. In fact I have requested for the grip to be raw and to insure a one handed draw capabiltiy. But as I said I’m satisfied and not buying it as a repro. As for the Budhume in the link I would have ordered KHHI’s GI2 rather than the Mk3 if I’d seen their GI2, but it’s now on the list. I ordered the Mk3 w/15” blade to substitute for my original 15” kukri which is an all time favourite of mine. I consider the original non-replaceable and the KHHI replaceable. My Mk3 is a utility piece. If I wanted a repro I would have ordered Windlass’ Regimental Kukri, which I may still do. Budhume KHHI GI2 My originals, 15" on bottom Cheers! Ok. You may have known but I think not everybody knows that KHHI`s classic historic line is rather far away from the original, their Jung Bahadur for instance. It could still be a fun khukuri though, just very little to do with history. I like the Aitihasik because I believe its rat tail tang, old, classic and I would like to see more of those.  Could be very nice handling. I dont have the Windlass myself, but since they seem to have been in business almost forever, they are a bit of interesting Khukuri history. I think you should go for it. |
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Post by pgandy on Jul 5, 2021 20:47:39 GMT
Cheers! Ok. :) You may have known but I think not everybody knows that KHHI`s classic historic line is rather far away from the original, their Jung Bahadur for instance. It could still be a fun khukuri though, just very little to do with history. I like the Aitihasik because I believe its rat tail tang, old, classic and I would like to see more of those. 8-) Could be very nice handling. I dont have the Windlass myself, but since they seem to have been in business almost forever, they are a bit of interesting Khukuri history. I think you should go for it. Since Windlass has restocked with MK3s I’ve had a chance to study their offering. They started making the Mk3 in 1943, probably opened their business with it. But what they now have differs from the originals I’ve seen. The scabbard for one with the two small knives were not there, at least from what I’ve seen and the frog shows a difference among. Also I believe the grip is of slightly diffeent geometry. I’m still considering it though. I’ve been satisfied with all my Windlass knives and if I do buy their Mk3 it won’t be as a repro. |
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Post by Simpleman on Jul 5, 2021 21:07:42 GMT
Since Windlass has restocked with MK3s I’ve had a chance to study their offering. They started making the Mk3 in 1943, probably opened their business with it. But what they now have differs from the originals I’ve seen. The scabbard for one with the two small knives were not there, at least from what I’ve seen and the frog shows a difference among. Also I believe the grip is of slightly diffeent geometry. I’m still considering it though. I’ve been satisfied with all my Windlass knives and if I do buy their Mk3 it won’t be as a repro. I must admit that I dont own any type of MK3 but I had one from KHHI many years ago. Its pattern that catches the eye. Perhaps the most interesting of the Mk I-V. Still very interested but havent bought one again, but I am positive I will. I think when it comes to Windlass, accuracy to originals or not (I agree it differs , flaring of handle for instance), it carries a legacy, and because of that it carries a value initself. I know of no manufacturer that has been in the business for so long as they have. Old news perhaps but I think you may have seen Eastons review of one? |
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Post by pgandy on Jul 6, 2021 18:35:28 GMT
To tell the truth I don’t expect to find a modern made kukri to fit the mould of its ancestor. It seems easy enough to copy an original but that doesn’t seem to be the case as with repro swords nor firearms. So I’m not losing much sleep over it. If I want an original ACC still has some and these are what the Gurkhas largely gained the reputation with, but I can find arguably faults with these as well. The KHHIs I have are stronger and more solidly built. The originals have a better feel and the softer metal at that period would have been more practical than the 55-57 HRC now offers. Take something as recent as the Mk3; Windlass began production of those in ’43, their statement, that was 78 years ago. It is safe to say that nobody with Windlass now was around at that time. Considering a generation is 20-30 years that was 3-4 generations ago and some secretes of the trade have been lost while new ones introduced. Throw in all of the various smiths and variations made over the many years it’s hard to say what defines an original other than age. So I look for a design and specs that I like and can live with and settle for that.
As for an old KHHI kukri I have three from about 15 years ago. Two are very much in use today. The other I retired in favour of a machete. The one I recently received is quite different in its construction and I see improvements in the company. Same owner I think but KHHI has matured some. I’ll take my modern made kukris out and use in any manner I choose with little fear of damage, not so with my originals. I must say that the originals are surprising me with their edge holding ability is spite of the estimated 42 HRC blades. I don’t cut bamboo but do take a chakmak to them after a cutting session. With my curiosity up I just checked the originals. Both are still shaving sharp. The 15” jobby not only cut my arm but took a junk out that needs attention. It’s not a simple razor cut. I love that one and it’s an all-time favourite of mine. As of last check a week ago the Mk3 was equally as sharp. It too has a 15” blade as of my request but doesn’t handle as well but is stronger and is the one I spend time with these days but doesn’t compare with the originals. I lucked out and got two good ones.
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Post by Simpleman on Jul 7, 2021 8:11:01 GMT
To tell the truth I don’t expect to find a modern made kukri to fit the mould of its ancestor. It seems easy enough to copy an original but that doesn’t seem to be the case as with repro swords nor firearms. So I’m not losing much sleep over it. If I want an original ACC still has some and these are what the Gurkhas largely gained the reputation with, but I can find arguably faults with these as well. The KHHIs I have are stronger and more solidly built. The originals have a better feel and the softer metal at that period would have been more practical than the 55-57 HRC now offers. Take something as recent as the Mk3; Windlass began production of those in ’43, their statement, that was 78 years ago. It is safe to say that nobody with Windlass now was around at that time. Considering a generation is 20-30 years that was 3-4 generations ago and some secretes of the trade have been lost while new ones introduced. Throw in all of the various smiths and variations made over the many years it’s hard to say what defines an original other than age. So I look for a design and specs that I like and can live with and settle for that. As for an old KHHI kukri I have three from about 15 years ago. Two are very much in use today. The other I retired in favour of a machete. The one I recently received is quite different in its construction and I see improvements in the company. Same owner I think but KHHI has matured some. I’ll take my modern made kukris out and use in any manner I choose with little fear of damage, not so with my originals. I must say that the originals are surprising me with their edge holding ability is spite of the estimated 42 HRC blades. I don’t cut bamboo but do take a chakmak to them after a cutting session. With my curiosity up I just checked the originals. Both are still shaving sharp. The 15” jobby not only cut my arm but took a junk out that needs attention. It’s not a simple razor cut. I love that one and it’s an all-time favourite of mine. As of last check a week ago the Mk3 was equally as sharp. It too has a 15” blade as of my request but doesn’t handle as well but is stronger and is the one I spend time with these days but doesn’t compare with the originals. I lucked out and got two good ones. I agree with much you say, my concern is that some people would like to have a replica or repro of a blade, and then end up buying something that is rather far away from the original. For instance what KHHI calls "A replica of the original version owned by Jung Bahadur Rana..". I am a proponent of showing what blade the copy or replica was made from, and then people can decide for themself.   |
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Post by kailashblades on Dec 16, 2022 10:48:45 GMT
It would be great to see an improvement on the current BSI, but with the current state of the contract system and the priorities of the military I don't think it's very likely to occur. If there was an open tender in future I'd love for Kailash to be a part of it. I don't think we'd be very successful though- the BSI is in a bit of a catch 22 situation. It's such a heavily entrenched status quo that something quite new and innovative would be required to stack up enough advantages over the BSI to be considered as a worthwhile swap. However such a proposal would inherently be somewhat untraditional and I think tradition, historical legacy and culture are huge factors in the decision making of those in charge.
Take care,
Andrew and the team at Kailash
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Could be very nice handling. I dont have the Windlass myself, but since they seem to have been in business almost forever, they are a bit of interesting Khukuri history. I think you should go for it. 
