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Post by rammstein on Jul 23, 2008 19:08:54 GMT
Well I'm not sure if it's fair but 19th century european armies would have (and by imitation DID) destroyed the samurai.
I'm sure when you get back to perhaps the 11th-16th centuries it would have been about even, but after this european superiority in gunpowder weaponry and masse infantry armies was the envy of the entire world.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 17:03:30 GMT
Hmm... I guess my question was sort of answered in the sense that if the Samurai had trouble with "alien" military orders/tactics, such as the Mongols (then again, who didn't have trouble with the Mongols...? ), then it is reasonable to assume that they were rather refined as military units, i.e. their training and equipment was highly standardized and directed towards a specific purpose. The reason the Mongols beat them in their first encounter was that the samurai would fight as individuals challenging other individuals to single combat. The Mongols fought as a unified army. I think it would be more accurate to say the samurai were rather refined as individual warriors rather than as military units.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2008 4:30:32 GMT
86, take a look at this site. www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.htmlIt is the work of Anthony Bryant, who writes most of Ospreys Samurai stuff. He has studied Japanese armor in Japan and has been trained to reproduce it. I think you will be surprised at what you find. Ah, thank you, that did explain alot to me. As soon as I can again, I'll try to remember to give you some karma. Thank you for the info!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2008 5:27:26 GMT
Cool. I hope you and everyone else enjoys it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2008 5:53:10 GMT
There's your karma, as promised.
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Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Jul 25, 2008 6:02:25 GMT
okay here we are again on samurai armour ..... so once again I must ask ........ IS BULLET RESISTANT SAMURAI ARMOUR THAT FAR-FETCHED ..... I mean really
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Post by jjshade on Jul 25, 2008 13:51:17 GMT
Hmmm... even air is bullet resistant, but bullet-proof Samurai armor? I highly doubt it.
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Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Jul 25, 2008 15:52:08 GMT
no modern armour is bullet proof but with modern matterials couldnit we get somthing close
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Post by alvin on Jul 25, 2008 16:15:23 GMT
no modern armour is bullet proof but with modern matterials couldnit we get somthing close It depends on bullet impact velocity, bullet weight, bullet construction, angle of impact, armour construction ( material , thickness, etc. ), and how much weight the person can or is willing cart around. Under some conditions a skull has been sufficient protection to make a person "bullet-proof". But, there ain't no practical, human body armour that is totally "bullet-proof".
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Post by jjshade on Jul 25, 2008 16:18:38 GMT
Excuse me Swordboy, but - what? Do you mean to ask whether we could, if we wanted to, create samurai armor from modern day materials, like Kevlar, so that it would be bullet proof? -Yes, of course? Though even modern armor is bullet proof only as long as the bullet isn't a type that will go through it...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2008 20:31:46 GMT
I'll make this quick, I'm wondering about the functionality of the Samurai armor of Japan. For those of you who are not familiar with the armor, click on this link and you will learn all that you need to know about it. ezinearticles.com/?Samurai-Armor-Part-1&id=57520 Moving on, now I know that at one point in history, the Samurai were the most advanced warriors on the planet....granted, this was during a period in history when the rest of the warriors of the world were fighting in loin cloths but still..... Anyway, what I'm wanting to know is whether or not the Samurai armor could actually prevent you from getting cut or if it was more for show? I know that it was very light and mainly made of leather with little to no steel so then.....could it prevent you from getting cut? Obviously if one Samurai thrust a sword into the armor of another Samurai, it would go clean through; but what if he slashed the armor? If the blade made contact with the leather instead of the creases in between the armor, would the armor protect the Samurai at all or would it cut clean through as well? Hi, I'm new to the forum but I've read book after book and seen piles of documentaries, so here's what I have to say. First yeah you're wrong about the material, Certain parts of the armor were leather but almost all pieces of higher class Bushi were iron. Anyways, A samurai had about 18 steps to wear a full suit of armor, more or less. Loincloth Kimono and belt or obi Kobokama similar to a Hakama Tabi socks Kyahan which are cloth leggings around the shins Waraji, shows Sune-ate the first piece of actual armor for the shins made of either leather or iron. Haidate which cover the front of the thighs, made of cloth or leather sometimes metal and the cloth netting that goes on the arms. Kote On the arms which are metal plates on leather or cloth Wakibiki which covered the ribs and upper back as well as the arm pits made of leather or mail with iron scales. Then the Do was placed on which is the main torso armor which was made of iron and had iron skirting that covered the groin and sides of the thighs also made of iron, the skirts were iron slips laced together with leather and cotton. The Uwa Obi went over that which was the second belt over the Do itself. Sode, the shoulder guards made just like the skirting of the Do, Iron plates stitched together. And lastly the Mempo and Kabuto, the iron face mask and the iron helmet. Of course lower class samurai I suppose could potentially wear leather, lighter armor instead of iron plates and such like I described. But as you can clearly see a Samurai had plenty of protection, I may have missed a few things though.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2008 14:24:05 GMT
I didn't have enought time to read back and see if anyone has brought this up. Why is it that the samurai armor had no protection for the thigh? With every set of armor I've seen, none of them have any protection for the thighs.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2008 23:23:59 GMT
I didn't have enought time to read back and see if anyone has brought this up. Why is it that the samurai armor had no protection for the thigh? With every set of armor I've seen, none of them have any protection for the thighs. After that question I have to ask, have you ever seen a full dress of samurai armor?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2008 1:14:25 GMT
After that statement, I've got to ask you, have you?
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Post by alvin on Aug 5, 2008 1:42:44 GMT
Maybe it would depend on one's definition of armor. To me armor is something one places over one's body to prevent penetration by potential weapons, whether blunt, edged, pointed, ballistic, etc. The armor is to protect one's body from harm. It can be made of all types of materials - cloth, wood, kevlar, various metals, etc. etc. This site has quite a few examples of Japanese Samurai armor, some of which seem to have armor for the thighs. www.japanese-samurai-armor.com/Edit...I apologize for the strangeness of the website...There ARE some photos there.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2008 2:11:29 GMT
After that statement, I've got to ask you, have you? Here's a photo of actual samurai You see the thigh pads? I could post another 100 pictures that show the same thing, but I shouldn't need to. I think you should pick up a few large books on samurai history before you ask any more questions to be honest. I don't know what source you're looking at that suggests any of the things you've asked but so far it's wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2008 12:15:39 GMT
*Smacks forehead very hard* Alright, maybe I mis-worded that when I said "no protection for the THIGHS". I suppose what I meant to say were CALVES; as you can clearly see from that picture that the only thing protecting their CALVES is cloth. Please correct me if I'm wrong but that is the way it appears to me. You can also see it in this picture. This next one is obviously not authentic but the reproduction armor is, I believe. Again, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure both sets are authentic replicas? Anyway, you can see from the one on the left that there is nothing protecting his thighs, anyone care to explain? Regardless, this entire point has come up because I've seen several pictures of samurai armor that APPEAR to have no protection for either the thighs or the calves, while some have protection for one or the other OR even both. I'm asking why some armor appear to have gaps in them? I don't think I can explain myself any better than that so if I still seem like an idiot, I apologize.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2008 18:03:04 GMT
*Smacks forehead very hard* Alright, maybe I mis-worded that when I said "no protection for the THIGHS". I suppose what I meant to say were CALVES; as you can clearly see from that picture that the only thing protecting their CALVES is cloth. Please correct me if I'm wrong but that is the way it appears to me. You can also see it in this picture. This next one is obviously not authentic but the reproduction armor is, I believe. Again, correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure both sets are authentic replicas? Anyway, you can see from the one on the left that there is nothing protecting his thighs, anyone care to explain? Regardless, this entire point has come up because I've seen several pictures of samurai armor that APPEAR to have no protection for either the thighs or the calves, while some have protection for one or the other OR even both. I'm asking why some armor appear to have gaps in them? I don't think I can explain myself any better than that so if I still seem like an idiot, I apologize.I'm not calling you an idiot, simply saying you should read from more trust worthy sources than the internet, there's a lot of bullsemprini on the net. Samurai armor varies really, of course not every suit will be exactly the same as the last, so not all suits will have calf guards but the standard officer's suit does have leather calf guards. If you think about it though, would YOU want to attack a samurai's calves? If the sword is in the normal position and you try to lean in and slash at the calves, chances are you would lose an eye, or leave yourself wide open for attack at the upper body. So I kind of doubt that they were focused on keeping their feet protected because it's just a bit impractical from my knowledge at least, to attack the lower legs. And Samurai armor is in pieces, this changed throughout history as well, for example early Do pieces were one large piece that opened at the back but this was later changed to being a two piece layout, one for back and one for front. And of course almost all armor of all periods and countries are modular, it allows for an easier more versatile fit as well as being protective of all vital areas.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2008 2:33:27 GMT
Well now, that's more like it! I couldn't have said it better myself, +1 karma to you my friend! Nice summary.....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2008 2:47:25 GMT
Thanks! Some books you could look for are
Secrets of the samurai and Warriors of medieval japan.
Two good books I bought years ago though so they could be hard to come by.
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