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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 20, 2019 5:37:23 GMT
So I found one of these on eBay going cheaply, and decided to pick up as a curio, and it will be leaving me shortly after it arrives. I'll post up when it gets here - it is quite interesting, having the decorated 1860 hilt but a blade of the double edged diamond section infantry officer sabre of 1881.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 20, 2019 16:53:51 GMT
Mucho pictures please..
This sounds interesting.
If you want, you can tack it on here?
Cheers.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 20, 2019 18:06:58 GMT
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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 23, 2019 7:24:39 GMT
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 23, 2019 8:28:11 GMT
The blade looks very nice already. I really like that design with the asymmetrical cut outs. Cleaning the basket will be a b!tch though, the inside I mean. I hate that part of the job. How are you planning to do that? Another thing: As this is a Toledo blade of a later vintage I am curious whether Toledo still makes their famous laminated blades at that point. I am almost finished with my Espada de Montar de Official from about 1830 and there the lamination is quite obvious. Would you mind and have a look at the blade please and see whether you can find faint wiggly dark lines running in the length of the blade close to the edge?   In the last picture of your sabre I think I see a dark line running up the blade from where the shadow is. And on the before last picture a dark line running from the ricasso running up the blade under the etch and then trailing off, as far as I can see. On my Montar blade they had a hard steel core ( also the edge), which shows up white under medium polish and on top of that a dark soft steel layer. On top of that white hard steel again and so on, ending with a white steel ,, spine''. All in all 7 thin layers per side. The Montar blade is for two thirds oval by the way. I guess the blade is about 6 mm thick or better, thin? I found that a good end polish with coarse, medium and fine steel wool brings out this pattern quite well, but if you go over this polish with Mothers, thinking it will make the pattern even clearer, everything is wiped out. I ended up with a nasty looking blue tinged blade were one couldn't ,,look into'' anymore. Truly a MacDonalds type of finish. Uch! I had to do that side of the blade again in order to get the lamination pattern back. I truly hate Mothers! Cheers. |
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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 23, 2019 22:41:24 GMT
I cannot find any lamination sadly. However, The basket is two pieces. Near the pommel it is very slightly separated.
I believe in 1875 they still had laminated blades. My old 1860 made at that date had a separation in the edge layers.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 24, 2019 10:02:16 GMT
Thanks for the info.
I think the Toledo blades died a slow death when the large army orders dried up in the last quarter of the 19th century and after WWI probably the whole thing really went down hill. Something like that. I don't think there is an exact tipping point.
With the demise of the generation that still had the know-how old Toledo went Dodo and whats left is this Marto fellow leeching from the old fame. Sad.
I am after an M1832 HC from 1875 and if this deal works out I'll know for sure whether they still made them the old way so late in the century. Your M1860 and that M1832/75 would be sufficient evidence I think.
Cheers.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 25, 2019 3:02:49 GMT
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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 25, 2019 3:17:06 GMT
Also just an FYI to my other forumites, this sword and it's restoration cost me a whopping 130 dollars rounded up. 123 for the sword after shipping and taxes, and 7 for the wire wheels and a sheet of sandpaper.
For less than the cost of a windlass you can very easily find good antiques. All you have to do is be patient.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 25, 2019 8:33:17 GMT
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Post by Jordan Williams on Dec 25, 2019 8:34:05 GMT
32.75 inch blade. Little shorter than I estimated
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 25, 2019 8:38:27 GMT
That is clean alright!
How on earth did you get into the basket with a wire wheel?
The backstrap was probably worn by daily use.
I noticed some Officers, doing the day to day routines, would always have the left hand over the grip, thus wearing away any decoration. There is no other explanation.
I think these hilts were made from Alpaca, to immitate silver.
Alpaca isn't very hard, so constant rubbing will have this effect.
I am still curious whether the lamination will come up when you polish the blade a bit better.
3M red-brown mat did it for me.
I hope to post the Espada de Montar today or tomorrow.
There will be some interesting pictures of the lamination effect.
Cheers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2019 13:24:24 GMT
Very pretty swords. I am curious as to the metal assay and if it is .80+ silver or white brass/German nickel silver. www.thesprucecrafts.com/nickel-german-silver-alpaca-149118The patina seems the latter to me. A US m1902 I worked on years ago had a similar initial presentation     The German white brass often a golden to brown rather than a black hue of patina between "nickel silver" and "coin silver". Merry Christmas and laissez les bons temps rouler! Cheers GC |
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 25, 2019 14:50:31 GMT
Alpaca was the Spanish variant of German Silver and/or Pakton.
All of these were base metals and mixes of tin, brass and some lead.
There is no silver in the mix at all, but it looked and oxydised like silver. It was used for cutlery mainly (Hotel silver) and everywhere else were a very cheap substitude for silver was needed.
Cheers and Merry Chrismas to you too.
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