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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 8:45:28 GMT
In Germany you're not allowed to carry melee weapons in public without a respected reason (not self defense, but sports etc.). The Seagal "Walking Stick" is easy to consider a melee weapon, it's a bokken with an axe-like handle. Don't tell me you have it only because it's such a good orthopaedic device. I have an "indestructable umbrella" btw., looks more civilized. Well, i DO need a stick to walk greater distance most of the time... but you can BET YOUR BUTT i chose the Seagal Stick for a good reason!
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Post by winteriscomingxii on Nov 7, 2018 12:05:14 GMT
Any person might react differently and develop any manner of PTSD from a single instance. Circumstance can be so, so different but I think if I had a pistol meant for defense, I would not leave it on/in the back seat of a vehicle. Also if having observed questionable activity been prepared, or reacted a little different as said suspects returned after first passing me by. If I were in a vehicle with someone else and we were armed, witnessing the approaching vehicle and "interlopers" Staying put with the windows up, imo, a better course of action. Simply turning the vehicle lights on, more than enough to send these folks driving away again in a hurry. Charging the other vehicle with yours a better weapon than a pistol. Like I say, folk react differently in any situation. I'm glad it worked out. In many/most US states, a loaded vehicle cannot be stored in a vehicle, nor transported in that condition. LTC means just that and state and local laws do vary but we are presented with only part of the story here. Was the person sitting in the visitor's car? Multiple vehicles? I am assuming you were sitting in your friend's car when they visited. The aftermath conditions vary as well. Sometimes lasting hours or days and sometimes a lifetime. It is though during a lifetime of experiences that one's own development reactions might vary even more. In an urban situation like this with phone in hand, calling the local dispatch, or 911 (I keep both handy in this more rural setting) as soon as I see suspicious activity. My vehicle then running with lights on (I am sure they would not have backed up) and charging with my vehicle if I didn't know why someone was approaching with a crowbar. Fight or flight quite instinctive but at the same time further broken down into stages of awareness and reaction, and can be trained. I'll try to shed a little more light on the issue and what happened. Sorry if this is a little long winded. My friend and I were in separate vehicles, mine was facing my garage, my friends was facing the road/end of my driveway. When the vehicle first passed us, we didn't think a lot of it because I live in a neighborhood with many, many residents and we do see cars drive by often and slowly. We did think it was a little odd that the lights were off, but it had been sitting at the house down the road for an unknown amount of time. I thought maybe they just forgot to turn their headlights on as they had just pulled away from the house. It wasn't until it passed us and almost immediately stopped in the middle of the road in front of my neighbors house, people got out and started looking at vehicles in the driveway, that I started to think something was up for real. Note, they didn't stay in this driveway for more than 1 minute. I'm guessing they checked the vehicles and all were locked so they drove away quick. This took less than 2 minutes for the whole thing to transpire, and I was watching them the whole time to observe their actions, try to get a good look etc. (it wasn't easy to do because it was so dark). After they drove away from that house, I said it was less than 5 minutes that they came back... I was probably being a little too generous with that time frame. It was closer to about 2 minutes, 3 tops. During this short amount of time, I was telling my friend what I saw and we were kind of stunned that it happened. I should have called the cops before talking to my friend about it, but it wouldn't have made any difference in this case. From the time they got to my neighbors house and started looking in cars, to the time that I had my encounter with them and they sped off, only about 8-10 minutes passed. It took the cops 10 minutes to get here, roughly, and that's after my friend was on the phone with 911 dispatch for about 5-10 minutes. They would have been long gone before cops got here even if I had called them right when I saw them stop at my neighbors house. Not trying to say that makes it ok, I definitely should have called the cops as soon as I saw them get out at the neighbors. Anyway, as I said, they were back in about 2-3 minutes after they left my neighbors and were literally parked right behind me. This is where I said they were only about 10 ft away, maybe 15, but they were parked extremely close to our vehicles. How they didn't see us, I don't know. Unless they did see us and planned on jumping us or hurting us in some way. But I doubt they saw us, because of the surprise of the guy when he saw me come around my vehicle... but that could have been because I had a gun that he was so surprised/scared. I also think the crowbar he had was for his own protection, or to try and hurt us, not to break in the vehicles. Who uses a damn crowbar to break in vehicles? Also, they didn't use it on the vehicles they had just checked out at my neighbors. Now I already said that I wasn't claiming to have done everything right. I dealt with the next part with the first thing that came into my mind, and my actions were motivated in part by the emotion of anger. I got extremely angry that these people would basically pull right up on my property at this time of night, when I knew they were up to criminal activity. You are correct, the smart thing would have been for both my friend and I to start our vehicles and turn our lights on and hope to scare them away, assuming they didn't already know we were there to begin with. However, I let my anger get the best of me and I immediately got out of my vehicle, wanting to know what they were doing on my property and went to confront them. I also did this because if I had needed to fire (for instance when they got to my vehicle, because they were definitely on the way to my vehicle, they had started smashing my window out with that crow bar) I would have had to fire in the direction of my friend possibly. I'm lucky that I scared the crap out of them, I'm lucky they didn't have guns as well. It could have ended badly. It's very easy to analyze the situation afterwards and think of things that should have been done differently. Everyone knows this, even if it's only from having verbal confrontations with friends or family members or strangers, we think of things we wish we would or wouldn't have said. As for the legality of the gun being in the vehicle. Different states have tons of different gun laws, carry laws and laws of engagement and they all vary. However, gun ownership is legal in all 50 states (with restrictions on certain types of guns in some states), and so long as the guns are on your property, they can remain in a vehicle, loaded or unloaded. In my state, I've been issued a concealed carry permit that is valid in about 30 other states that allows me to carry the gun in my vehicle or on my person, loaded and ready to use, but even if I hadn't had this permit, the situation with it being in my vehicle with me, loaded, would be legal in any state since the vehicle, gun and myself were all on my private property. I keep it in a holster system that's strapped to the back of my passenger seat. This is ideal for me because I can reach it extremely easy and fast if I need to, much quicker than it being in my console or dashboard compartment. It's also better because it's out of sight, should I get pulled over for some reason by a cop, it's best that you don't have a gun in view. Once I get out of my vehicle at the end of the day or night, I take it in the house, but I'm in my vehicle then my gun is there with me. Anyway, this has been long winded enough as it is, and I've described the situation as best as possible so I probably won't discuss it in length anymore. Thank you for giving me your opinions on the situation as they have further helped enlighten me. Take care.
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Post by Croccifixio on Nov 7, 2018 14:48:54 GMT
First, glad you and your friend are ok.
Second, glad you had a firearm. I am not american but do own guns in a gun-restrictive country. The reality about guns is that they are so easy to make nowadays, that restrictions on legal ownership do not prevent criminals, or otherwise decent people who are barred from owning a gun for some reason (in my country, poverty/lack of income is a ground to deny a gun license), from buying an illegally-made ghost gun. This makes it important, in my view, to be armed yourself one way or another if only to ensure you have sufficient means to protect your loved ones. If you live alone, owning a firearm is really up to you. But being responsible for other people changes my opinion on gun ownership from being ambivalent, to being actively for it.
Just a relevant story. A human rights lawyer whom I met a year ago was assassinated last night by motorcycle-riding gunmen right outside his home as he was smoking. I had met him, talked to him, and greatly respect his work. He was a spry 56 year old. If ever life takes me towards that career path, I do not want to die like that. He was shot four times, three in the chest and once in the back. I wish he was armed. I wish somehow he carried. I’m sure his wife does too. Not only for the firepower, but also because owning a firearm gives you more incentive to be alert, careful, and situationally aware (as you have been). Maybe he wouldn’t have been caught unaware. Maybe he wouldn’t smoke outside without a gun. Whatever, it’s done now.
Third, I’m of the view that many areas in the US are just way too easy targets for criminals like these. Try to have visible preventive measures. A gate. A big guard dog. Barbed wire. It really helps - you won’t look like an easy victim.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 15:04:44 GMT
Sorry if I seem to be writing as contrary but a couple of thoughts here are a bit wrong headed. Different states have tons of different gun laws, carry laws and laws of engagement and they all vary. Indeed they do vary. One still needs a ltc in many states to have a loaded weapon in a vehicle regardless of where you are. I believe your permit would be valid in RI. You would be arrested for carrying a loaded weapon on the streets if visiting RI but fine to be traveling through without intention to stop.
That leads to my other wonderment It's also better because it's out of sight, should I get pulled over for some reason by a cop, it's best that you don't have a gun in view. Actually, that's not the case. Hands at ten and two with your engine off and window down. Exchange greetings and if asked, reply as to why you might have been stopped. If a weapon is seen or asked about any weapons, explain it. If you are asked to exit the vehicle, first explain the weapon whether on your person or strapped to the back of your passenger seat. As a law abiding gun owner and allowed carry and transport for defense, you are on their side and have no reason to be anxious about your gun being spotted or mentioned right away. ~~~~~~~~~~
As to calling about your situation, I can understand the timing but the quicker the police have been apprised of a situation, the quicker they can follow up in pursuing or investigating the vehicle and suspects. Again, fight or flight is different to most folk first experiencing something like this.
The drive by looters are becoming somewhat rampant in my corner of the little big state of RI, with cars in dark driveways a favorite target. A bit disconcerting here, as a lot of the larceny here has been teenage locals and "visitors" from a nearby city. The demographic here very anglo and my town more red than blue, which is just kind of weird for RI. Stars and bars forever in this little hidden Dixie of New England.
Even in this fairly wide open state, the ltc shall issue permits are not even statewide (Providence for instance). Open carry not even county wide but allowed in some towns with extra permissions. We do have a castle law but neighboring CT and MA do not. That means advancing on a person outside your dwelling, gun in hand, will reap a trip to the station and likely in the do do. LTC or not. If you are able to retreat or not escalate, you are expected to. In other words, before assuming an offensive outdoors "brandishing a weapon" towards someone with a crowbar, you are requested to not do so. Even if accosted or jacked up in some states, the laws would rather you flee if possible.
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Post by pellius on Nov 7, 2018 19:02:49 GMT
“should I get pulled over for some reason by a cop, it's best that you don't have a gun in view.” I very respectfully agree. “As a law abiding gun owner and allowed carry and transport for defense, you are on their side and have no reason to be anxious about your gun being spotted or mentioned right away.” I very respectfully disagree. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile
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Post by pellius on Nov 7, 2018 19:07:31 GMT
Also www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article90905442.htmlNone of which is intended as political commentary in any way. Nor is it directed at anyone personally or anyone’s beliefs whatsoever. I offer these (hopefully) far outlying situations in support of my opinion that it is a dangerous situation for police to believe you, or someone with you, is armed.
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Post by winteriscomingxii on Nov 7, 2018 19:34:46 GMT
Sorry if I seem to be writing as contrary but a couple of thoughts here are a bit wrong headed. Different states have tons of different gun laws, carry laws and laws of engagement and they all vary.Indeed they do vary. One still needs a ltc in many states to have a loaded weapon in a vehicle regardless of where you are. I believe your permit would be valid in RI. You would be arrested for carrying a loaded weapon on the streets if visiting RI but fine to be traveling through without intention to stop. That leads to my other wonderment It's also better because it's out of sight, should I get pulled over for some reason by a cop, it's best that you don't have a gun in view.Actually, that's not the case. Hands at ten and two with your engine off and window down. Exchange greetings and if asked, reply as to why you might have been stopped. If a weapon is seen or asked about any weapons, explain it. If you are asked to exit the vehicle, first explain the weapon whether on your person or strapped to the back of your passenger seat. As a law abiding gun owner and allowed carry and transport for defense, you are on their side and have no reason to be anxious about your gun being spotted or mentioned right away. ~~~~~~~~~~ As to calling about your situation, I can understand the timing but the quicker the police have been apprised of a situation, the quicker they can follow up in pursuing or investigating the vehicle and suspects. Again, fight or flight is different to most folk first experiencing something like this. The drive by looters are becoming somewhat rampant in my corner of the little big state of RI, with cars in dark driveways a favorite target. A bit disconcerting here, as a lot of the larceny here has been teenage locals and "visitors" from a nearby city. The demographic here very anglo and my town more red than blue, which is just kind of weird for RI. Stars and bars forever in this little hidden Dixie of New England. Even in this fairly wide open state, the ltc shall issue permits are not even statewide (Providence for instance). Open carry not even county wide but allowed in some towns with extra permissions. We do have a castle law but neighboring CT and MA do not. That means advancing on a person outside your dwelling, gun in hand, will reap a trip to the station and likely in the do do. LTC or not. If you are able to retreat or not escalate, you are expected to. In other words, before assuming an offensive outdoors "brandishing a weapon" towards someone with a crowbar, you are requested to not do so. Even if accosted or jacked up in some states, the laws would rather you flee if possible. "Different states have tons of different gun laws, carry laws and laws of engagement and they all vary. Indeed they do vary. One still needs a ltc in many states to have a loaded weapon in a vehicle regardless of where you are. I believe your permit would be valid in RI. You would be arrested for carrying a loaded weapon on the streets if visiting RI but fine to be traveling through without intention to stop." I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not saying it's legal to carry a loaded weapon in your vehicle in all states. I was talking about my specific encounter, as it seemed like you were possibly questioning the legality of me having a loaded gun in my vehicle, parked on my property. In short, I'm saying that I believe it's legal for anyone in any state to have a loaded gun in their vehicle when it's parked on their own private property, so long as it's legal for said person to own the gun to begin with. After the vehicle, person and gun leaves that private property then all standard carry laws for whatever state you're living in would apply. "That leads to my other wonderment It's also better because it's out of sight, should I get pulled over for some reason by a cop, it's best that you don't have a gun in view. Actually, that's not the case. Hands at ten and two with your engine off and window down. Exchange greetings and if asked, reply as to why you might have been stopped. If a weapon is seen or asked about any weapons, explain it. If you are asked to exit the vehicle, first explain the weapon whether on your person or strapped to the back of your passenger seat. As a law abiding gun owner and allowed carry and transport for defense, you are on their side and have no reason to be anxious about your gun being spotted or mentioned right away." You're right in that there is no reason to be anxious about having a gun in the vehicle, as long as you have a license to carry the gun and you're carrying it in the manner in which state law requires. However, it is absolutely not wise to have the gun in plain sight where the officer can see it. The cop doesn't know you, he doesn't know you're not a criminal, he doesn't know if you are lawfully carrying the gun, why you are carrying it, what your intentions are. Cops are just human, like us, and they react with different emotions. There are many officers that could very well misconstrue the situation and make a rash decision, based on nothing more than a quick movement or gesture on your part. This has happened before, and people have lost their lives over the very issue in which we are speaking on. What is the very first thing that happens when a cop pulls you over? They ask for identification. The best way to let a cop know you have a gun is by having it out of sight, and handing over your concealed carry license along with you driver identification card. This eliminates any possibility of verbal miscommunication about the issue and also lets the cop know you're legally carrying a gun.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 22:04:17 GMT
“should I get pulled over for some reason by a cop, it's best that you don't have a gun in view.” I very respectfully agree. “As a law abiding gun owner and allowed carry and transport for defense, you are on their side and have no reason to be anxious about your gun being spotted or mentioned right away.” I very respectfully disagree. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_CastileYup, your mileage may vary. Like an officer wondering why you have "something" strapped to the back of the passenger's seat. The back seat(s) is the first place an officer is looking after the license plate as they approach you. Heck, I've been hailed by an officer in a weaver stance shouting "freeze" while shouting "what are you doing". What was I doing? Fishing along the bank of an urban river (Nonantum, Charles River). He was trembling mind you as I had to calmly tell him twice I was just fishing (stout spinning rod for bassing). Probably thought I was throwing stuff in the river. <shrug>hardly the first time I have had both good guys and bad guys pointing a gun at me</shrug> I'm not out to convince anyone that it should be my way. Good luck with yourselves, I have survived all sections of the Boston area and had only ever been robbed at work at gunpoint. A couple of other earlier occasions talking down the bad guys with guns, another with a butcher knife at my gut (a 7 footer Marine). I may have recanted in the past here about Tommy the Marine and his time in prison for unloading a clip into a robber on the street. All the judge said before sentencing was it was a shame he felt he had to shoot the guy so many times. Another friend and story was big Dave getting held up over by the Prudential Center building. Shot by the robber several times with a ball ammo 9mm. He wrestled the guy for the gun, broke the guy's arm and walked across town to Mass General (about a mile or so). So ya, stuff happens. I spent a lot of years in and around most of the Boston area and between Whitey, the Italians, the Angels and others, I have never been uncomfortable around violence. Indeed, calmly drove a small crowd away by sticking steel in the nearest of the group. The Boston and other local police knew me by sight as one of the other large guys but I had to laugh out loud when the policeman was about to shoot me for fishing. I'm not sure if he had just had coffee after a double shift, something like that. Those poor guys in the now defunct MDC police had a lot of territory to cover and a fair number of river robbers and rapists (mostly opposite the river where I was fishing). I also had enough moving traffic violations to have even the state police chuckling after they saw the screens. Waltham always liked me because they knew I'd pay. Something like 22 vehicles in 20 years and traffic stops in most of them. Like I said, hands ten and two. Engine off window open, wait for them to initiate the conversation. Volunteer only what they want to see. Rifles (unloaded)behind the pickup seat? Yup. Didn't ask, didn't offer anything about them. But heck, this was ancient history when I walked through one of the Boston Logan terminals with a bowie in my belt. NRA sticker next to your local Police benevolent sticker (I always found my Higgins Armory sticker a good conversation starter). Whatever keeps you alive and sane (too late for me in the latter). The trenches of Boston, sigh, good times and a lot of potentially very bad situations. Anyone familiar with daily walking through the Bromley-Heath projects? www.wbur.org/news/2018/05/07/double-murder-jamaica-plain newspaperarchive.com/biddeford-saco-journal-aug-15-1975-p-1/Hey, I was just the big white guy walking through. Only approached by a pair of elders in a truck one day (1975) asking me to avoid it that morning. Mattapan, Dorchester, Charlestown, South Boston. I was just the big white guy that traveled and worked in most of those towns. To be perfectly frank, my ptsd days were earlier than my teens. That doesn't mean I didn't live on adrenaline at times. I have never carried a gun in a public area. Any remaining ptsd done got used up in a constant but controlled stress for decades. Only to return as memories decades later. You might call this post stress relief, not unlike the thread starter. Like I mentioned, folk are often just wired differently. Take the group of kids that took a bat to someone just to see what killing someone was like. I was one that wasn't going to be a victim. Some might regard that as cold blooded, or calculating. To me it was always just being aware of the situation at hand in a calm and reasoned response. It wasn't always the best possible action but I've survived them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 22:38:42 GMT
Also www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article90905442.htmlNone of which is intended as political commentary in any way. Nor is it directed at anyone personally or anyone’s beliefs whatsoever. I offer these (hopefully) far outlying situations in support of my opinion that it is a dangerous situation for police to believe you, or someone with you, is armed. Sure, the news articles are almost daily. Good and bad responses to a very trying and difficult time. The biggest issue with "accidental" police actions are a two-fold issue. Firstly training and retraining officers as these incidences occur. Secondly, profiling not just the people but what their innocent actions may present. In the Castile instance, the driver offered/initiated the firearm into conversation without the officer asking about it and then the officer performing three felonies. Got a more recent instance of "harassment". In many of my numerous traffic violations, the question about weapons was occasional but calmly asked by the officers, or on the streets by officers and detectives. Geez, about to walk through the Longwood Park and suddenly surrounded by two cruisers and a detective unmarked. My hands in the air, they did ask about weapons. "Easy guys, I do have some tools in my pockets" Before the Leatherman years. "I'm a mechanic" Of course 2am and they were chasing someone else. Oh yeah, it's the big guy always visiting a friend. Felons south and east of me. A gun would get dusty here but that is tucked away. I'm just an old fart with my vehicle completely unlocked. In this instance, somewhat amused those in my present apt life actually love their alarms. The lot is bright as day 24/7. Sunny downtown Pascoag. My previous residence though, noticeably scouted by passersby.
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tonystark
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Post by tonystark on Nov 9, 2018 2:33:05 GMT
In Germany you're not allowed to carry melee weapons in public without a respected reason (not self defense, but sports etc.). The Seagal "Walking Stick" is easy to consider a melee weapon, it's a bokken with an axe-like handle. Don't tell me you have it only because it's such a good orthopaedic device. I have an "indestructable umbrella" btw., looks more civilized. If that’s the case I’d carry a cricket bat or a hockey stick (for a “ranged” weapon of course LOL) 24/7 and if the police asked where I was going, I’d just tell them I was off to play with myself..... *ahem* 😅
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Post by Croccifixio on Nov 9, 2018 16:57:36 GMT
In Germany, I'd bring a Jorge Sprave monstrosity around for self defense.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 9, 2018 17:25:50 GMT
It's more or less safe here as long as Oldvesemir isn't allowed to carry a gun!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2018 16:08:59 GMT
It's more or less safe here as long as Oldvesemir isn't allowed to carry a gun! What do you want to say with that? I had exactly one situation in my whole life, and that was some 30 years ago; today in the same situation i would RUN - if i only could. I sidekicked a drunk agressor at a village festival and took a leave ASAP! Being a Tae-Kwon-Do red-black, much younger and fitter and the bad mood guys not looking forward to cut you to pieces back in those days helped a lot... I allready learned that some guys put me on the right side of the political spectrum because of being scared-the-crap-out-of looking at the criminal situation in Germany. Know what? Been an SPD voter since 18, the last three years i voted Green! And enough politics, again. Please dont put me in the combat corner; thats not my place. Never was.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 10, 2018 16:32:09 GMT
Späßle gmacht! A joke about your fiery temper.
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tonystark
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Post by tonystark on Nov 10, 2018 23:34:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 10:05:51 GMT
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Post by winteriscomingxii on Nov 11, 2018 21:29:33 GMT
At first glance I thought that was some type of Male bedroom toy...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2018 21:37:51 GMT
At first glance I thought that was some type of Male bedroom toy... Stop! Stop it, please! ROFL-ing hurts so much! xD
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tonystark
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Post by tonystark on Nov 12, 2018 0:37:06 GMT
At first glance I thought that was some type of Male bedroom toy... Wait you mean it’s not?! Well nevermind then 😂😂
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tonystark
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Post by tonystark on Nov 12, 2018 0:39:44 GMT
People proficient with this thing could take a persons eye out with a sizable enough BB or even a marble (if you didn’t want to try to explain the presence of a BB in your pocket).
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