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Post by Cosmoline on Dec 29, 2017 18:18:40 GMT
I don't have experience with the Kingston but I have worked with several Windlass XIV's. Both in drills and actual sharp-on-sharp slowplay (don't try that at home!). I have an Albion Yeoman but honestly for a fighting blade the Windlass gets my vote. The steel is not well tempered, but the weight gives it a really nice gravitas in a bind that the Albion just doesn't have. The big pommel is also nice and I've wondered if the Kingston pommel is too small and too far back. To really work properly, an XIV's pommel should nestle in the palm and serve as a rudder for the blade.
If you can get the Windlass for cheap, DO IT! They're not making them anymore. And get the Kingston when you have a chance to try out. It's probably better for cutting as it's bound to have better steel.
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Scott
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Post by Scott on Dec 29, 2017 22:18:35 GMT
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Post by Cosmoline on Dec 29, 2017 22:25:06 GMT
Odd, it's been gone from Kult for some time now.
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Scott
Member
Posts: 1,676
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Post by Scott on Dec 30, 2017 0:54:07 GMT
Lawrance have an assortment of older swords for sale. Windlass will make a run of otherwise discontinued swords if a retailer asks nicely...
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Post by cearball on Dec 30, 2017 8:46:24 GMT
Thanks very much. I have found it In stock at a Finnish website to. However the UK import tax may bite me in the arse. €25 postage which I assume will be cheaper than from America, KOA did the maths for me on one of their swords & tax plus shipping was almost £200! This Finnish website also have the two handed windlass falchion in case anyones interested. I have paid for a windlass xiv in the UK however I reckon after the Xmas holidays they will refund me saying they cannot deliver the goods. I was getting all geared up to get the Kingston xiv even the older model, however after some of these comments I am unsure. What is the overall balance really like in comparison? This will most likely be the last sword I buy. Unless I am able to sell two of mine for something reasonably decent. However I have found these hard to sell in UK.
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Post by cearball on Dec 31, 2017 4:25:15 GMT
I don't have experience with the Kingston but I have worked with several Windlass XIV's. Both in drills and actual sharp-on-sharp slowplay (don't try that at home!). I have an Albion Yeoman but honestly for a fighting blade the Windlass gets my vote. The steel is not well tempered, but the weight gives it a really nice gravitas in a bind that the Albion just doesn't have. The big pommel is also nice and I've wondered if the Kingston pommel is too small and too far back. To really work properly, an XIV's pommel should nestle in the palm and serve as a rudder for the blade. If you can get the Windlass for cheap, DO IT! They're not making them anymore. And get the Kingston when you have a chance to try out. It's probably better for cutting as it's bound to have better steel. I can get the windlass for £230. Are you saying you prefer it to the Yeoman? Is that solely because of the extra weight ....?
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Post by Cosmoline on Jan 1, 2018 4:39:19 GMT
I prefer it for sharps work, in part because it has greater weight while still being balanced but probably also because dinging the Albion is painful in a different way ;-)
I'd say get a Windlass if you can get it for under $200 or maybe $250.
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Post by cearball on Jan 3, 2018 10:42:12 GMT
Thanks to everyone that replied to this thread.
As of now I have received a refund for the windlass xiv as they didn't have it in stock & couldn't at present source a supplier.
I did find a Finnish website that would sell for £230 blunt including shipping, bonus is I don't believe I would have to pay any taxes on this.
I could not find the Atrim kingston arms approved xiv in the UK & am unwilling to pay the taxes to get one here from USA.
I did however find the SM36080 out of spec version for £226 ($306.73) due to a recent price drop was originally £282 so have bit the bullet & gone with that.
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Post by cearball on Jan 10, 2018 8:09:12 GMT
Well the Kingston xiv out of spec model arrived.
TBH my main emotion is disappointment. Sigh.
Two things, the scabbard is really quite loose & doesn't grip the sword at all. The other is the Fuller's deviate to the right for the last two inches along the blade.
But my biggest dislike..... The handling.
First thing this sword reminded me of when i picked it up was my cold steel 1796, which I hate the handling of.
I could query whether the atrim approved version was better but the stats aren't ridiculously dissimilar.
Maybe it is because my last purchase, (a windlass 1860 cutlass) impressed me so much but it handles way better. I would definitely choose the cutlass over this in a sword fight.
Ok I haven't cut with it yet so I will hold my judgement back a little.
I feel the windlass xiv massive pommel would be nice on this sword to "wedge" the hand in. Also maybe the different POB would of suited my tastes more.
Don't suppose anyone has one in the UK & fancies a trade ;-)
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Post by cearball on Jan 10, 2018 22:53:09 GMT
I have one of those "incorrect" ones and it is an AMAZING sword. Personally, I like it better than the corrected model because it has a beautiful mirror-polished blade instead of the satin finished one. Yeah, I actually noticeably prefer the "uncorrected" model. I find it actually feels a bit lighter to me, with greater distal taper than the "corrected" one. (Not to mention cheaper by a clear amount on KOA. But whatever. I actually prefer the Windlass to either to be honest.) To people who have handled both the windlass & the Kingston. Does that windlass feel as blade heavy? I may return the Kingston.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jan 11, 2018 1:01:49 GMT
Sorry, I’ve experience with the Windlass only and that I could find no real fault with. Well one. The leather grip was a little slicker than I preferred so I wrapped it with heavy black waxed thread used in leather work. Not only did that improve the appearance, in my opinion, but gave a more positive grip. Sorry the Kingston is a disappointment. I find the Windlass version hard to beat. I lucked out there when I ordered just before MRL closed them out. Shortly after ordering MRL was offering them for around $90. Needless to say that didn't make me happy, but now down the road and they are no longer available and knowing what I have I don't mind in the least that I paid a little more. It's a favourite of mine.
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on Jan 11, 2018 1:27:38 GMT
Yeah, I actually noticeably prefer the "uncorrected" model. I find it actually feels a bit lighter to me, with greater distal taper than the "corrected" one. (Not to mention cheaper by a clear amount on KOA. But whatever. I actually prefer the Windlass to either to be honest.) To people who have handled both the windlass & the Kingston. Does that windlass feel as blade heavy? I may return the Kingston. In a word, no, didn't feel as blade heavy. Not by a huge amount, say about "15%," but the Windlass always felt "handier" to me than either of the Kingstons. Not that that is always bad of course; with a great edge that might make the less handy feeling version with more blade presence a better cutter. But given they're all rather painfully short, even if the Kingston's theoretically a better cutter, I still prefer the Windlass, since you have to get in close for any of these type XIVs. If I wanted a more optimized cutter I'd be grabbing XII or X anyway.
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Post by dchisenh on Jan 11, 2018 2:27:03 GMT
Sorry you don't like your Kingston XIV, Cearball. I know the feeling when you do your research and finally get a sword that everyone else likes but just doesn't seem all it's cracked up to be once it's in your hand. Maybe the reason you still found that first version available is because someone else returned it because of the fuller or scabbard? No way to know though, just a thought.
I've found that after buying, handling, and then either returning or selling several types of swords over the past few years certain swords 'fit' me better, in both size and use. Some swords are just too big for me, others seem oddly balanced or just 'wrong'. I've had swords that were too heavy and handled like a crowbar and others that were extremely light, but just didn't feel right to me.
For me, my Kingston XIV fits like a glove. When I want to go two-handed, either my H/T longsword or Hanwei Rhinelander feel equally comfortable to me (though when I get my customized grip back on the H/T, that might change!). I am seriously loving my new Kingston sidesword, it's still really new to me but reminds me of my longsword...just really nicely balanced for one handed use!
Anyway, I guess at the end of the day, if the sword doesn't work for you, I say sell it/return it and move on. Keep trying until you find what fits and then buy the best version of it your budget allows!
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Post by cearball on Jan 11, 2018 12:36:50 GMT
Sorry you don't like your Kingston XIV, Cearball. I know the feeling when you do your research and finally get a sword that everyone else likes but just doesn't seem all it's cracked up to be once it's in your hand. Maybe the reason you still found that first version available is because someone else returned it because of the fuller or scabbard? No way to know though, just a thought. I've found that after buying, handling, and then either returning or selling several types of swords over the past few years certain swords 'fit' me better, in both size and use. Some swords are just too big for me, others seem oddly balanced or just 'wrong'. I've had swords that were too heavy and handled like a crowbar and others that were extremely light, but just didn't feel right to me. For me, my Kingston XIV fits like a glove. When I want to go two-handed, either my H/T longsword or Hanwei Rhinelander feel equally comfortable to me (though when I get my customized grip back on the H/T, that might change!). I am seriously loving my new Kingston sidesword, it's still really new to me but reminds me of my longsword...just really nicely balanced for one handed use! Anyway, I guess at the end of the day, if the sword doesn't work for you, I say sell it/return it and move on. Keep trying until you find what fits and then buy the best version of it your budget allows! I got it from a shop in the UK. By the sounds of it their supplier still has a few of the older models available as they had to restock before shipping to me. They said the supplier wouldn't order the newer model from Hanwei until the older models gone & that would be awhile.
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Post by cearball on Jan 11, 2018 12:40:46 GMT
To people who have handled both the windlass & the Kingston. Does that windlass feel as blade heavy? I may return the Kingston. In a word, no, didn't feel as blade heavy. Not by a huge amount, say about "15%," but the Windlass always felt "handier" to me than either of the Kingstons. Not that that is always bad of course; with a great edge that might make the less handy feeling version with more blade presence a better cutter. But given they're all rather painfully short, even if the Kingston's theoretically a better cutter, I still prefer the Windlass, since you have to get in close for any of these type XIVs. If I wanted a more optimized cutter I'd be grabbing XII or X anyway. Exactly the sort of info I wanted. Thanks.
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Post by cearball on Jan 23, 2018 18:09:25 GMT
right.
My windlass xiv arrived & I must admit I am happy with it & find it preferable to the kingston arms one. I bought from irongate armoury & cannot fault the service. It is also worth mentioning that I bought the kingstom arms sword from the knightshop & found their customer service to be great as well.
These windlass swords weight & POB seem to vary a bit going off reviews. I don't have a way to weigh mine but the POB is just under 4 inches. The fullers don't deviate, everything seems solid & I can even hold it upside down in the scabbard without it falling out. As to the scabbard the reason the sword doesn't fall out is the addition of two leather "shims" placed inside the throat. I have not seen this mentioned in other reviews so was wondering if it was normal.
So reasons I prefer the windlass to the kingston. Although the Kingston looks like it is made out of better materials the fit & finish was worst than the windlass. The Scabbard didn't hold the sword at all & the fullers deviated. I felt the handle was too skinny & long on the kingston & the pommel too small. Also it felt too blade heavy for my liking.
Main con of the Windlass was it didn't come sharpened. However that is being remedied with judicious use of an accusharp & dmt stone.
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pgandy
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Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Jan 23, 2018 20:32:03 GMT
I thought that you’d like the Windlass. Those shims in the scabbard are normal and do a good job. However, the disadvantage is that they trap moisture between them and the blade resulting in rust if you are not careful. Be CAREFUL with that Accusharp. They work OK on such as kitchen knives but swords are something else. I don’t like the finish they leave. On 10xx steel I find the Accusharp leaves unsightly chatter marks as it bites in removing junks of steel, no such problem on the one EN9 steel I tried. Personally I use an Accusharp on a sword only to break the corners to speed up the process and then switch to [usually] sand paper to do the rest.
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Post by cearball on Jan 24, 2018 4:28:15 GMT
I thought that you’d like the Windlass. Those shims in the scabbard are normal and do a good job. However, the disadvantage is that they trip moisture between them and the blade resulting in rust if you are not careful. Be CAREFUL with that Accusharp. They work OK on such as kitchen knives but swords are something else. I don’t like the finish they leave. On 10xx steel I find the Accusharp leaves unsightly chatter marks as it bites in removing junks of steel, no such problem on the one EN9 steel I tried. Personally I use an Accusharp on a sword only to break the corners to speed up the process and then switch to [usually] sand paper to do the rest. Thanks for the heads up. Weirdly it was this site years ago that put me onto accusharp, but also this site that turned me off! It is the first time I put an edge onto something from scratch & in that sense it was a big help. I used it on a sabre in the past that just didn't come that sharp. I nearly always finish with DMT stones however. I don't really have any horror stories from using them.. Worst sharpening on any of my blades is on a windlass hand & a half falchion which I paid to get sharpened, I think I bought it from Reliks.... turned up all wavy. Still cut though.
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