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Post by dtb on Aug 19, 2017 9:56:16 GMT
I am looking to buy a sword for Iaido/ tamashigiri ideally close to 27 inches (as i am 5'6") and am leaning towards the shinto, shinto elite if i can find one,or the bamboo mat sword. looking for best handling and as close to an apple seed geometry i can find without hitting the $1,000 plus price range. mostly leaning towards the shinto blades. I am greatfull for any input i get and am glad to be a part of a forum with serious collectors and and practitioners.
p.s. knowing what others prefer and why I feel would be of great value
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Post by skane on Aug 19, 2017 21:49:45 GMT
Feilong Higo nagasa is ~ 27". I've only seen good feedback on the Higo, from people that know production katana well.
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Post by zabazagobo on Aug 19, 2017 22:42:31 GMT
A Hanwei Bushido could fit the bill, mine has a nagasa right around 27 inches and a healthy amount of niku (not too heavy and far from flat) and can shear paper as well as chop through tree limbs, although harder targets did make my edge chip a bit as it was sharpened a bit too fine. It isn't a tip-heavy sword and with the heavier tsuba it feels pretty agile, I use it with one hand and it flows very well in motion. The tsuka is fairly thick (better than some other Hanweis, but still kind of chunky), so that could be something you don't like. The saya on mine follows the sori well and has a clean draw, which would be good for lots of iai.
I was asking Mat Jensen about how a Bamboo Mat compares to a Bushido, and he felt that the Bamboo Mat had more tip presence and the Bushido felt slightly lighter. So for iai, the Bushido could be a better out of the box option. If you don't mind bo-hi, a Hanwei Kaeru would be a nice choice, and if you want something extremely light (so no hard cutting) a Hanwei Orchid would fit the bill. All of these have a nagasa length between 27 and 28 inches on average; you might want to stay away from the Bamboo Mat since it tends to hover around 29 inches if length is extremely important to you. For cutting, the Bushido is the most versatile of the three, the Kaeru is a healthy middleground, and the Orchid really shouldn't tackle rigorous cutting.
I'd normally recommend Huawei, but sometimes their saya don't fit the blade the best, so if your primary intent is lots of iai, that could be something that annoys you. Although you could ask Jacky to inspect the saya fit and make it as smooth as possible and she'd most likely oblige.
I've never tried a Feilong sword before, but they look absolutely awesome. Plus, if Josh over at Cottontail Customs stocks them, that's quite an endorsement as he really knows his stuff (and if you end up not liking the tsuka and ito-maki of what you get, he can work wonders to improve it).
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Post by dtb on Aug 20, 2017 13:34:20 GMT
was looking at the review for the forged direct and want to know if the census that these are the best someone can buy at the $1000 dollar price range generally found to be true. if so i would be motivated to spend the extra otherwise the Feilong Higo nagasa seems very ideal and hard to beat but in the end want to have the sword with the best handling and smoothest draw or that live feeling. thank you
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Post by johnwalter on Aug 21, 2017 14:57:15 GMT
No they aren't the best,not even close,lol. From the Bam mat and the Shinto,for what you ask for,I'd go with the Shinto,better choice for Iai,imo.But the Bam mat,imo,is the better cutting sword. I also own the Feilong Higo and tested it for Cottontail Customs and Feilong.Imo,it's a great sword.Well balanced for both Iai and cutting.Slightly wider than average blade,but not as wide as the XL style mat cutters. Cottontail Customs is the vendor in the US for these.Not sure when stock is expected tho.
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Post by johnwalter on Aug 21, 2017 14:58:09 GMT
Also keep in my,balance etc,to a point is going to be user preference.
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Post by dtb on Aug 21, 2017 19:18:10 GMT
thank you much i am currently torn between the shinto or shinto elite and the higo but am a little concerned about the draw on the higo even though it seems the better all around cutter. its hard to buy a sword without being able to hold it!
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Post by zabazagobo on Aug 21, 2017 22:47:07 GMT
Right? I really wish there were brick and mortar armories in every major city. If you can find a shinto elite I'd have no reservations about taking the plunge (especially over a regular shinto), I just haven't seen them anywhere. Depending on what you're looking for, a Hanwei Practical Plus Elite (the one with cotton ito) could be another viable (and less expensive) choice.
Really just depends on how you want the sword to feel in the hand, as John Walter said. If you could describe how you want it to feel in hand in some detail, we can all chime in with better recommendations.
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Post by dtb on Aug 22, 2017 6:22:05 GMT
looking for excellent balance and point control not the front heavy swords that cause immediate fatigue that are so common. not especially light so it has enough weight to carry the force through the target but still light enough that its not an act of strength to keep the sword and my body in unison without having to stomp a hole in the ground. something i can do at least 100 cuts a day and still not be so sore i am no good on the mat in the rest of my training. A good clean draw and an effortless cut without getting into the thinner competition cutter blades as i would like it to be able to handle slicing a coconut without worry of damage. sounds like a pipe dream but i am sure its out there.
At one point in time my draw was to fast to see the whole action and very accurate trained on meiji style straight blade to begin with but would like to make things easier this go around as well as train with the sword i plan to use because in my experience that is when the blade became a part of my body.
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Post by zabazagobo on Aug 23, 2017 4:18:53 GMT
Sounds like we may have similar taste in handling, assuming a blade with presence, but not tip-heaviness, with a nimble feeling in the hand that feels evenly weighted and not forward/tip-inclined is what we're talking about.
If that's the case, my best advice is to stick around the length you desire (27 inches), maybe just a little over (so don't go over 28), but most importantly, pick something with a slightly heavier tsuba. From my experience, a heavier tsuba serves as a counterweight to the blade and brings the sensation of weight closer to the grip than the tip. Since you want to avoid something that's more forward-balanced, probably stay away from the bamboo mat from Hanwei.
Since having a resilient blade is another thing you value, I'll pitch the Bushido as a viable choice again (healthy niku and heavy tsuba), skewer the Orchid completely (no niku and very thin) and say "maybe" to the Kaeru as it won't be quite as robust, just to revisit those three briefly. Sticking with Hanwei, a Shinto will have some of the feel you want as it's already a lighter blade and has a tsuba that makes it feel even lighter. That being said, if you want to tackle harder targets (very thick mats, etc.), bo-hi may be less desirable and the shinto is a pretty light blade.
So, back to Feilong Higo, I really like the looks of that one. Robust tsuba, pretty light weight, thinner futasuji-hi, inryo saya, nice looking ito-maki, and John Walter likes it...sounds kind of hard to go wrong with. Kind of questioning why I don't have one to be honest. Looks like a perfectly utilitarian all-around practitioner's blade.
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Post by dtb on Aug 23, 2017 13:48:01 GMT
do you think the shinto elite is still in this group of swords fitting what i am looking for or should i really be thinking between the bushido and the higo nagasa? really like the bushido but it seems from reviews that the higo is the better cutter of the two. the width of the higo has me worrying about draw speed. the shinto elite seems like the best of both worlds but i am concerned with length. i thank all of you for your quality advice as it has already helped me greatly in figuring out what my best options in production swords are.
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Post by dtb on Aug 24, 2017 8:00:11 GMT
john as it seems you have held all three of these swords which of them seemed to have the smoothest draw to you sir?
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Post by dtb on Aug 24, 2017 8:10:54 GMT
by the way am close to a decision and will stop bugging with questions im sure you guys have answered a million times i truly appreciate the help. domo arigato gozaimasu
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Post by zabazagobo on Aug 25, 2017 17:54:00 GMT
No worries, it's a question that will never not be asked because ultimately it's all subjective to the wielder.
It may be useful to check out the rough statistics for the blades. I sourced the Hanwei ones from CAS Iberia's website and the Higo's from Feilong swords' website. In terms of blade thickness, motokasana: Higo (0.27") > Bushido (0.26") > Shinto Elite (0.25") and sakikasana: Bushido (0.20") > Higo (0.197") > Shinto Elite (0.15"). Based on this, the Higo and Bushido have pretty similar thickness, while the Shinto seems a bit thinner.
For blade width, motohaba: Shinto Elite (1.38") > Higo (1.34") > Bushido (1.21") and sakihaba: Shinto Elite (1.03:) > Higo (0.98:) Bushido (0.95:). The Shinto Elite is overall a slightly wider blade than the Higo, which suggest it may ever so slightly do better on mats and it weighs considerably more as well, comparable to the Bushido, so there will be more mass behind the swing for the cut.
Regarding weight, the Bushido and the Shinto Elite weigh roughly the same (cited as 2 lb 11 oz), whereas the Higo weighs considerably less (2 lb 5 oz). Seeing as the Higo weighs the least, it would probably be the least tiring for iai, however given the heavier mass of the Shinto or Bushido, with proper technique they should have more force behind the cut.
That all being said, none of these statistics touch on another important detail, which is how the edge was actually sharpened. My Bushido has healthy niku, however the edge was still quite fine and got a couple chips taking on some hard unconventional targets (stuff like tree limbs and hard plastic); while it sailed through like nothing was there, there's a couple spots where the edge wasn't too happy with me. I can't comment on the Higo's sharpening and edge geometry first hand, so that's the only variable left up in the air aside from which aesthetic you like best.
But from what the stats say, we could perhaps loosely approximate each swords relative title to one another as "Mat Specialist" (Shinto Elite), "Draw and Cutter" (Higo) and "Special Cutter" (Bushido).
Hanwei Bushido: Overall: 40" Blade Length: 27 1/4" Handle Length: 11 1/2" Weight: 2lb 10oz Point of Balance: 5 1/2" Width at Guard: 1.21" Width at Tip: .95" Thickness at Guard: .26" Thickness at Tip: .20" Sori: 3/4" Blade Steel: K120C
Hanwei Shinto Elite: Overall: 40” Blade Length: 28” Handle Length: 11” Weight: 2lb 11oz Point of Balance: 5" Width at Guard: 1.38" Width at Tip: 1.03" Thickness at Guard: .25" Thickness at Tip: .15" Sori: 3/4" Blade Steel: T10
Feilong Higo: (converted units) Overall: 39" Blade Length: 27.9" (says "tsuba to tip", might include habaki) Handle Length: 11" Weight: 2lb 5 oz Point of Balance: 5.9" Width at Guard: 1.34" Width at Tip: 0.98" Thickness at Guard: .276" Thickness at Tip: .197" Sori: 0.86" Blade Steel: T10
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Post by dtb on Aug 25, 2017 21:16:45 GMT
thank you much i have decided to go with the bushido. i have one last question, do you know of anywhere of quality that sells it as a daisho set cheaper than buying both katana and wakisashi?
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Post by zabazagobo on Aug 25, 2017 23:49:35 GMT
Sadly, I haven't been able to find one. I've been looking for the last year or so without luck. Really want to nab a wakizashi too, but they've been out of stock forever it seems.
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Post by dtb on Aug 26, 2017 1:28:37 GMT
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Post by johnwalter on Aug 26, 2017 15:58:28 GMT
Try LGMartialArts.con The owner is a mbe here,if he doesn't have it listed,email him.
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Post by zabazagobo on Aug 26, 2017 17:23:48 GMT
Posting those links is all the thanks I need. In fact, I should be thanking you. Those two sites all seem to be related to Swords of the East under the name 'Cook E-Commerce'. I've done business with Swords of the East and bought one of Hanwei's 30th Anniversary Musashi from them, much lower price than elsewhere with the sbg discount at the time. Really fast shipping too, got it in maybe three days.
LGMartialArts has a good reputation, definitely worth an ask.
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Aug 27, 2017 3:11:20 GMT
The Hanwei Bushido katana is available, but unfortunately, the wakizashi is out of stock. You can email me at support@lgmartialarts.com or PM me here for more info
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