Forge direct golden dragon

Hi Pete,

You've asked a lot of different questions here, so sorry for the dissertation!

First and foremost, my advice is always listen to your Sifu when in doubt.  (That said, skip towards the end, where I comment more directly about the weights he's tossing out)

Second, if you can, ask your Sifu which jian is the best at the school in his opinion and maybe borrow it to weigh and measure.

Third, there is a lot of disagreement about what is "right" in Chinese martial arts, and life in general.  It is particularly exacerbated in Chinese martial arts due to a) the Communists destroying a lot of knowledge, b) my culture's way of self-inflating and waxing poetic about the past, and c) the fact that by its very nature, talking about martial arts is a lot like playing a game of telephone where things get diluted or misinterpreted down the chain.  I've come to the conclusion that a lot of "right" should be based on what is right for you, taking into account a) physiology and b) your particular martial style and application.

So regarding the first point, the disagreements, keep in mind that in reality, jian in the most recent dynasty were considered "scholar" swords carried by the rich and educated.  According to historians like Rodell, prior to that, the straight swords were less prolific and more likely to be carried by ranking officials.  This adds up to mean that the surviving jian found at antique stores and in museums tended to skew towards the scholar swords and not necessarily indicative of jian used in battle.  Plus consider the probability that in the past, jian tended to be custom forged for the user and thus personalized (or the other extreme, quickly cranked out by a smith for an army rushing to battle without specific specs), and it makes it a lot harder to definitively say that "a jian must be 2lbs., 39" from pommel to tip, etc."

Which should lead you to the "what is right for you" question - What style do you do?  How tall and heavy are you?  In my style, all the power should come from the wrist and internal.  I'm supposed to grip my blade with at most two fingers and the thumb - pointer, middle and thumb.  The grip and wrist are supposed to stay pretty relaxed.  This is in stark contrast to the dao, where we grip with the full hand and hold like a vise.  I'm not a big guy.

If you look at my personally customized blade from Dragons Breath Forge, which I just reviewed in the linked thread, sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/50711/custom-twist-damascus-forged-champion, it comes in at about 2 lbs. 6 oz.  I had specifically asked for no more than 2 lbs. 2 oz. from the smith, but he gave me good scientific and practical reasons for the extra weight to increase cutting capability; plus, he was great and let me visit the forge and handle the jian before he finalized it but also had a contingency to get the weight down if I ended up not liking it.  The balance won me over instantly.

But not everyone agrees.  You would think that the 6 oz. wouldn't be much of an impact, but at my school, some have stated that they feel like it is too heavy for them to handle with the proper grip.  Probably the loudest criticism though comes from someone a good head shorter than me and much lighter than me, albeit a very skilled practitioner.

When I had the Forge Direct jian which clocked in close to 3lbs., it was impossible to do a two finger and thumb grip throughout the entire form, much less cutting.  However, at my school, there were two gentlemen who thought the weight was decent.  Both were several heads taller than me, and one outweighed me by a lot.  Granted, the heavier gent also was just learning the dao, so his grip was definitely heavy handed and not about finesse.  And the other gent clearly stated that he would use a jian that weight to strengthen his wrist but not do the form or cut.

Which leads me back to - how big are you, and how do you perform and practice with your jian?  I personally am not aware of any Chinese styles that do not view the jian as a finesse weapon.  My impression is that almost all styles can trace back their jian form to the San Cai form, and if you watch modern interpretations of that, it is all about the wrist action and speed.  But if your style dictates that you hold your jian with the full hand and heavy, and you are big enough to handle a big heavy jian, go with it.

Finally, that brings me back directly to some of your weights and stats questions.

Assuming your style isn't too far off from mine, with all due respect to your Sifu without knowing who he is and what your style is, I find the 5 lbs. weight story a little suspect.  But again, rely on your Sifu.

I could buy a bagua knife or one of the 7-rings dao for a big hefty guy being close to that because of the size of the dao and the grip is geared towards chopping.  But if we are talking modern straight swords, I feel like a 5 lbs. jian would likely be impossible to wield correctly within most Chinese styles.  I can't even imagine how you would fit 5 lbs. of steel into a blade that is 39" and have it still be shaped like a jian.

I do agree with the general length with the caveat that again, it's personal.  The tip of the blade should be determined by placement near your ear at ready position, so if you are super tall, you'll need something longer and vice versa if you are super short.  My jian is just under 32" blade length with a total overall length just under 39".

In terms of flexibility, by nature, a properly forged jian should have some inherent flexibility in the blade.  If the steel is too rigid, the instant you hit something, it could snap.  We aren't talking floppy tinfoil here, but if you clamp down on the handle and grab the tip and pull, you should be able to get a degree or two of bend.  Even more important, it should snap back to true and straight when you stop forcing the bend.

In general, a jian with proper flexibility should vibrate when you tap it toward the tip.  With the sword I reviewed, when I practice incorrectly, it feels super stiff without much feedback.  If I get my power going right, it literally vibrates from tip down to pommel, even when just doing the form.  And it sounds like a chime when you flick the tip with your nail.

For reference, Peter at Dragons Breath Forge showed me a crusader sword, a much shorter, thicker sword.  But even that sword had vibration at the tip when tapped because it was forged right.

In terms of POB, I mostly agree.  I think it's personal, and it depends on the construction of your jian.  On almost every previous jian I have owned, most being well-reviewed on SBG or elsewhere, the POB has been 3 or 4" from the guard, but the jian never felt tip heavy.  I have seen the "not more than 2 1/2" standard bandied about, but more by wushu practitioners going strictly for show speed (which would directly contradict the 2 1/2 lbs. to 5 lbs. stat).  My opinion is that the POB should be placed so that you don't feel the jian pulling towards the tip, especially in lateral cuts and cuts that arc down.  But if you cut more than or as much as you practice a form, a tiny bit of pull towards the tip might help with that sort of practice.

For reference, in the jian I reviewed in the link above, the POB is about 4" from the guard.  But the balance is relatively transparent because my handle and pommel were sized towards the more recent trend of going long, like a hand and a half versus a single hand grip.  I think POB should be determined by the other specs on your jian.  I think what your Sifu is suggesting is that it should be basically perfectly balanced to not pull towards the tip, but again, rely on your Sifu.

Hopefully this helps without being too contradictory to what you were told by your Sifu!