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Post by Hastur on Nov 13, 2016 16:55:20 GMT
Hello I recently came upon a field issued m1889 ersatz cavalry saber for 350 pounds shipping included and I was wondering if this is a good price. The blade is in good condition with only a few nicks as damage on the edge.
Thank you.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Nov 13, 2016 17:24:37 GMT
Pictures or kink to the listing?
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Post by Hastur on Nov 13, 2016 22:05:21 GMT
He hasn't sent pictures yet all I know is it is the cavalry model m89 without the full basket hold and has a simple ersatz d guard. I am wondering hum much those usually go for so I know if I am getting a good deal from this guy.
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Post by Afoo on Nov 13, 2016 22:25:45 GMT
They do not come up often. As such there is a high amount of variability. Depends on the condition etc.
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Post by Hastur on Nov 13, 2016 22:35:36 GMT
Sword identified
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Post by Hastur on Nov 13, 2016 22:36:48 GMT
There are pictures of the tip and edge so far. It seems to be a pipe back of some sort. If anyone has anymore information of this pattern that would be great! :)
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Post by Afoo on Nov 14, 2016 2:53:23 GMT
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Post by Hastur on Nov 14, 2016 3:16:31 GMT
ah I see yes it has the exact same handle and guard as shown in your first link, it says it is made by Carl Eickhorn stamped on the blade. are there any marks that would mark it as either German or Argentine issue?
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Post by Hastur on Nov 14, 2016 3:31:22 GMT
 On inspection it seems to look exactly like this example with the makers mark I mentioned earlier as well as E.P.D. 28 under the guard. In any case what does this type of 1889 usually go for as far as price wise? |
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Post by bfoo2 on Nov 14, 2016 3:56:19 GMT
These were apparently for export to Romania, but most were never delivered and were instead appropriated by the Saxony artillery and supply corps. In form, it is similar to the Argentinian 1889 variant as Afoo mentioned. In my opinion the Argentine 1889 is the ultimate 1889 variant- it's a bit longer and more aggressively curved giving faster handling. This one here should be lovely in the hand. I'm not an expert so I cannot make any definitive comments regarding value for money. 350 pounds seems like a fair retail price for one that is in perfect, flawless condition. These are not common swords, but they don't seem particularly desirable. Most people prefer the "purebred" Prussian 1889 (for historical rather than handling reasons in my opinion) so these tend to be ignored and the prices reflect that. Does this example have a maker's mark or any unit identification? Refs: www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?118066-Pipeback-Sabre-with-quot-Carl-Eickhorn-Solingen-quot-stamp |
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Post by Hastur on Nov 14, 2016 3:59:06 GMT
other than the eickhorn stamp there is the initials E.P.D. 28 under the guard. the condition is good for the blade save for about 4 shallow nicks and some pitting on the guard. no active rust though. To be honest I have been searching for a well priced field issued enlisted 1889 but only turned up dress models until I stumbled upon this XD
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Post by bfoo2 on Nov 14, 2016 4:57:41 GMT
Yeah. German 1889s are pretty elusive  These D-guard Romanian-contract, and the Argentinian variants are by far the cheapest way to get into the 1889 club. Be advised that the blades on all of these are different (longer, more curvy) If you *need* the straight-blade, there's an obscure pattern of Brazillian infantry/police sword which has the blade. There's one on eBay here. I got one from Dave Kelly a while back. Relatively speaking, the curved-bladed Romanian/Argentine variants have a slightly different character than the straight-bladed Brazillian. The former are much more dynamic and slashy whereas the Brazillian is more stout and direct. I assume that the Prussian 1889 would feel the same |
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Post by Afoo on Nov 14, 2016 5:21:41 GMT
Yeah. German 1889s are pretty elusive :p These D-guard Romanian-contract, and the Argentinian variants are by far the cheapest way to get into the 1889 club. Be advised that the blades on all of these are different (longer, more curvy) If you *need* the straight-blade, there's an obscure pattern of Brazillian infantry/police sword which has the blade. There's one on eBay here. I got one from Dave Kelly a while back. Relatively speaking, the curved-bladed Romanian/Argentine variants have a slightly different character than the straight-bladed Brazillian. The former are much more dynamic and slashy whereas the Brazillian is more stout and direct. I assume that the Prussian 1889 would feel the same There is another Brazilian 1889 here. Very reasonable price, but that is entirely reflective of its condition |
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Post by Hastur on Nov 14, 2016 5:47:52 GMT
Thanks for the suggestion, had a look at it but the tip seems to be quite corroded. If I can't find a good condition one I'll probably stick with the Romanian after some haggling :P
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Post by Afoo on Nov 14, 2016 16:06:22 GMT
Thanks for the suggestion, had a look at it but the tip seems to be quite corroded. If I can't find a good condition one I'll probably stick with the Romanian after some haggling :P John Denner out of Canada has a true blooded Prussian 1889 for 750 cdn, which works out to $550 USD or 450 pounds. Shipping may be in the neighborhood of 40 pounds to the UK or 42 USD To the states depending on where you are That one has been sitting for a while - it was at $850 cdn about 3 years ago, and its still there. Could make an offer, though I do not think it would come down below the $350 for your Romanian |
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Post by bfoo2 on Nov 15, 2016 5:49:46 GMT
Thanks for the suggestion, had a look at it but the tip seems to be quite corroded. If I can't find a good condition one I'll probably stick with the Romanian after some haggling There's nothing wrong with going full Dave Kelly and getting both! As I mentioned earlier, this one probably looks/feels different enough that you could probably get it now and not worry about it becoming redundant/surplus when you pick up a Prussian 1889 at a later date. *edit* I took a closer look at the pictures of the blade, and there appear to be fine scratches on the surface. To me this is consistent with a previous owner cleaning off surface rust or corrosion with sandpaper, steel wool, or some other form of abrasive. Perhaps someone with more practical experience with sword restoration/cleaning ( Uhlan @edelweiss , &tc) can comment/confirm. I'm not a big stickler for having the original antique factory polish (and to be honest a little bit of wear and tear does not detract from the aesthetics of these industrial, brutish German swords). But I'm not sure if that affects the sword's value. Again, I'd defer to those with more experience in this matter. |
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Post by Hastur on Nov 15, 2016 21:03:23 GMT
Thank you for the Denner link, unfortunately I called and they replied that they do not take any offers below the 750 listed... I received some more information of the blade such as another mark on the spine. I have requested more pictures of the blade and edge to see if there has been some polish or restorative work done.
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Post by Hastur on Nov 16, 2016 1:23:20 GMT
I also found another one of the issued variants with the two bolts in the handle that is in great condition save for the cracked bakelite handle, is there a way to repair bakelite? will it pose a structural problem for the grip or is it more of a cosmetic problem?
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Post by Afoo on Nov 16, 2016 3:00:05 GMT
I am sure you could epoxy it, though that would certain drop the value
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Nov 16, 2016 10:38:16 GMT
I also found another one of the issued variants with the two bolts in the handle that is in great condition save for the cracked bakelite handle, is there a way to repair bakelite? will it pose a structural problem for the grip or is it more of a cosmetic problem? Depends. With broken off pieces and wide cracks it can be done. Antique radio enthousiasts do it all the time. Get some Play Doh in a dark colour. Add dry pigments to get the tint you need, in this case a dark brown. Fill the crack really well and do not try to be too gentle about it. Do not try to model the surface just yet. Let it stick out and be raw. Leave to dry for one night. I do two. When dry get out your super glue and really saturate the filler. Don't be too frugal, just get as much super glue soaked into the filler as you can. The point is to saturate the filler and glue the filler to the surounding walls and the bottom. Again leave to dry for one or two nights. After drying the filler will be rock hard. Now get out the needle files and other very small diamond files lock smiths use and model the surplus filler conform to the rest of the grip. When done properly, it will be hard to tell there was a crack. The radio guys do excellent work repairing broken off cabinet corners and what not. If you want to know more about it, google images: how to repair old Bakelite radios. I restored the bone grip of my Chasseur d'Orleans this way and the result was 100%. See: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/48537/sabre-de-chasseurs-dorleansEdit: You'll need to file the repair. It will be so hard normal sandpaper does not work anymore. When done a good polishing with 0000 steelwool will blend in the repair real well. Also, the super glue will keep the broken grip parts in check. So, depending on where the crack sits, the repair could very well be more than cosmetic. |
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