stormmaster
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I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Sept 16, 2016 3:33:19 GMT
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Sept 16, 2016 3:48:50 GMT
Historical accuracy is often poor. Combination of no profile taper and no distal taper can make for terrible handling, or if the blade is thin, a floppy blade. Hilts are often oversize (too long and too fat - but this can be a good thing if you like long fat grips). Sharpening is usually bad, with a secondary bevel with a steep angle ground with a very coarse grit. The leather sheaths can be the type that strongly encourage rusting. If the blade is stained blue (like the one you linked), the finish will come off if you, e.g., clean rust off. Tangs can be a threaded rod welded to a short stub.
An individual sword might not suffer from all, or even any, of those problems. But they're the potential problems to look for. If the seller also sells unmounted blades (blank blades), that can tell you what their tangs look like.
Some people say that the blades can be very soft. In my experience, pattern-welded knife blade from Pakistan can be very, very hard, and would lack the toughness you want for a sword. So it's possible for the blades to have poor heat treatment in either direction.
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on Sept 16, 2016 3:51:01 GMT
The major caveat is that quality is all over the map. You can see that on the bare blades when you look at the tang. Some are good, some are bad but eminently fixable if you adjust them (usually shorten them so you remove the rat tail part) some are "I'll definitely pass."
Plus you might get a good one or--like many are--get one overbuilt. (Some of which can be fixed of that, some not.)
But if you're willing to roll the dice you might get burned or you might end up with an unsung gem. I have a couple of those too.
(But hey, I live in Nevada. We're gamblers by nature. ;) )
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Post by demonskull on Sept 16, 2016 4:02:10 GMT
Pretty but...
Let's start with the obvious :
First no distal taper - at 5 mm its going to be pretty heavy Second the guard is narrower than the grip where they come together Third the "damascus" layers are very prominent - this indicates that there arn't many layers- 352 by their statement* not sure come they come up with that amount based on two or three original layers the math doesn't come out correct for them to add up to 352
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Post by pellius on Sept 16, 2016 5:04:59 GMT
Incidentally, old archive posts at SFI and myarmory harshly complain about bad owner experiences with the heat treat and toughness of both Windlass and Hanwei Damascus type blades. Some of the posts are around 10 years old, so maybe things are much different now.
Even back then, the common advice seemed to be to avoid inexpensive Damascus steel, especially when the forging process was unknown.
On the other hand, my budget friendly Chinese made pattern welded blades have performed quite well.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Sept 16, 2016 6:07:26 GMT
Do you really think you will get a good damascus sword for that price.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 6:22:09 GMT
Do you really think you will get a good damascus sword fro that price. Excellent Question! Think about what Driggers just pointed out!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 6:28:57 GMT
I AM living in Pakistan, you know. And frankly, DO NOT buy that. Trust me, throw that link as far from you as you would throw a pile of steaming BS.
The first Hazard Symbol went off as soon as I read that they do not ship to the very country where they are made. Like, seriously? Good chance that they don't want people coming after them. Also, all nearby locations are not shipped to. Major alert right there.
Another thing. I know most of these people since I actually spend two years of my life travelling my country in search of proper smiths. There are some, but the secrets are way too closely guarded and they would not just make swords for anyone now. In actual, they are now engineers, doctors etc, people of higher profession (No offense to any smith, we love you guys), so they naturally don't need to do it as a source of income.
There is only one man I can 100% guarantee, he is the student of a very famous bladesmith here, lives in Ugoki Sialkot, and used to Own DAMASCUS WORLD.
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stormmaster
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I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Sept 16, 2016 6:29:57 GMT
you guys are probably right, not worth the risk of purchase just to find out the hard way.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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"Lord of the Memes"
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 16, 2016 6:47:04 GMT
Incidentally, old archive posts at SFI and myarmory harshly complain about bad owner experiences with the heat treat and toughness of both Windlass and Hanwei Damascus type blades. Some of the posts are around 10 years old, so maybe things are much different now. Even back then, the common advice seemed to be to avoid inexpensive Damascus steel, especially when the forging process was unknown. On the other hand, my budget friendly Chinese made pattern welded blades have performed quite well. One owner of a damascus Hanwei Godfred had it broke many years ago, I believe he said by abuse, but often posts with it. I think the problem is fixed. I've seen japanese damascus kitchen knives stamped out in dozends of a large plate of "industrial damascus". I believe the Godfred is milled out of such a plate. I assume this is stucturally better, compared to a real forged pattern-welded sword. With the "old way" more can go wrong.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 6:51:08 GMT
There is a reason that I live in Pakistan but am looking at guys like John Lundemo etc, for a custom build.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 10:57:24 GMT
Incidentally, old archive posts at SFI and myarmory harshly complain about bad owner experiences with the heat treat and toughness of both Windlass and Hanwei Damascus type blades. Some of the posts are around 10 years old, so maybe things are much different now. Even back then, the common advice seemed to be to avoid inexpensive Damascus steel, especially when the forging process was unknown. On the other hand, my budget friendly Chinese made pattern welded blades have performed quite well. One owner of a damascus Hanwei Godfred had it broke many years ago, I believe he said by abuse, but often posts with it. I think the problem is fixed. I've seen japanese damascus kitchen knives stamped out in dozends of a large plate of "industrial damascus". I believe the Godfred is milled out of such a plate. I assume this is stucturally better, compared to a real forged pattern-welded sword. With the "old way" more can go wrong. Yes, I was abusing it. Yes, Paul Chen of Hanwei was contacted. Yes, a replacement blade was fitted and yes, the reborn sword sold not so long ago. The blade had been held at temperature for too long, making a rather Bisquick grain growth. There had been a couple of other failures. The tang construction of the Hanwei Godfred may still be a concern. If undoing the pommel, there is a nut under the fancy cap. Don't just rip the pommel off as I did. As far as I know, Hanwei only offered replacement blades during that first run. That blade came without the welded rod and was long enough to pass through the pommel. I actually slotted the pommel, smushed the tang and added JB Weld (and majik marker). The tang body was welded to the blade body. Aaron Justice polished one out and it is not a horrible look. If nothing else, the Godfred has always been a very handy feeling sword and despite all the anachronisms, always smelt like a weapon.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Sept 16, 2016 12:00:53 GMT
Uups, you did it again . But your fair statement made me buy my godfred ("Lady"). Have you had the impression too, that the blade is stamped/milled out of an industrial-damascus block? Perhaps this is the reason for the welded tang? I see no way to disassemble mine without destroing something, so I hope it is welded well. Never heard of a failure there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 12:32:44 GMT
I don't know if Hanwei mills these but I would expect not on their other fancier pattern welded offering. Whatever stock is used for the Godfred appears to just be random pattern. I had conversed with Paul Chen directly, so they were then aware by the time the newer blades were offered (newer unstopped fuller). I was both happy and sad to see mine go. Happy in that my collecting has changed. Sad because it really is a fun sword to play with.
The brass cap over the nut pops off/out. Mine had glue filling the grip. The brass between the blade and guard makes for a good tight fit and overall, I doubt they would fail internally. I had literally twisted my pommel off by hand (big hands) but that was frustration and not wanting to dig glue from around the nut. Others had them apart cleanly.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Sept 16, 2016 14:19:15 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 14:59:28 GMT
Regardless of other worries or appeal, I would expect them to be pretty soft. That doesn't make them useless. The cost is low because production is cheap. Look at it in the same vein as "damascus" Chitana.
I hadn't seen that falcata before but the filework does seem to be almost a trademark on the subcontinent "damascus" knives and swords.
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Sept 16, 2016 15:03:11 GMT
Why does Paki steel look so muddy or messy?
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Sept 16, 2016 15:08:14 GMT
Like I said before do you think you are going to get a good damascus blade that cheap. This steel is turned out by huge hammer mills using dies.
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Post by Rain on Sept 16, 2016 16:43:11 GMT
Hello stormmaster
I took a look at this ebay seller and have added to watching seller list. Looking at the blades being offered I seem to see all custom hand forged patterns like the fine feather pattern on the big bowie? micarta handle? seller has a solid rateing. some of the blades look dam fine to me. everything factory $t!t my @$$
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 17:03:08 GMT
Why does Paki steel look so muddy or messy? You see that rusted scrap metal Henry? That's why! I have a video too, of this guy pounding it into a grass trimming blade and of his heat treat. I would try to upload that as well, this is from my visits to different cities to find a proper smith. Some things are appalling! Shows what generally happens....
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