|
Post by Afoo on Oct 21, 2016 20:55:56 GMT
Eh, not so much an Anglo Canadian hangup, but a budget hangup. I find French and British swords go for a premium, while German swords beyond the classic 1811 are much less recognized. Even then the 1811 goes for less than the British equivalent.
|
|
|
Post by Jordan Williams on Oct 21, 2016 20:59:37 GMT
Eh, not so much an Anglo Canadian hangup, but a budget hangup. I find French and British swords go for a premium, while German swords beyond the classic 1811 are much less recognized. Even then the 1811 goes for less than the British equivalent. This was also my dilemma, bit almost reversed I always want french antique swords (although mostly just the 1822 trooper sabre) but they're way note expensive than say, a Spanish 1895/1907, or other Austrian and German swords. But now I've got my Frenchie (and used all my sword money for a good while)
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Oct 28, 2016 21:01:50 GMT
Speaking of which....I just got an 1822 LC :P Burned the rest of my money for the year, but was a decent deal. 1877 Manufacture so its beyond the prime date, but at least it was made in France and not by WKC, so still retains some form of liveliness. Besides, I believe Dave Kelly posted somewhere saying that, while the pre-war production swords are better, anything with a 36 inch blade is good enough for collectors on a budget. This one has the advantage of being made in France, so avoids the German percussiveness Its lively. I mean, I have my abnormal 1906/1860 which is 2.4 lb in weight (I believe the standard was 2.6). The 1822 is also 2.4 lb despite the longer, wider blade and thicker blade at the base. The broad fullers really do help. Ad @uhlan mentioned, the 1822 LC is vague. I found this compared to the 1822 line cav, and even next to the 1906 it is vague. Thats not to say its awkward in the thrust - you can move the tip around very easily....it just does not feel as connected to your hand as in the other swords. Like a car with power steering. You are in control, but it feels like there is something between your hand and your destination. Its a much better cutter, but again, as I said with the 1822 line cav,, its not categorically different from an 1860 or any other sword. It feels a bit more nimble, but once the adrenaline starts flowing you won't notice the difference. Thats a pet peeve of mine - when people talk about the 1822 as some sort of magical sword. Its good, yes, but not good enough ti put it into an entirely different class as say an 1860 or British 1853. bfoo2 's 1796 LC variants are the only swords I have encountered whose performance I would say differs significantly enough from the 1860 to put it into a different category, but that is because they were designed to fill entirely different functions despite their similar dimensions, and the handling reflects that
|
|
|
Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 28, 2016 22:59:44 GMT
Two comments:
1. I did tell you that 1st Generation 1822LCs are the preferred weapons for speed and "to the hand" performance.
2. When using any cavalry saber, wear gauntlets. Not if or maybe. "I done like doin it wif a covah. It be betta in da flesh. " Boochit! "
3. If you want elegance, buy officer sabers.
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Oct 28, 2016 23:54:48 GMT
Two comments: 1. I did tell you that 1st Generation 1822LCs are the preferred weapons for speed and "to the hand" performance. 2. When using any cavalry saber, wear gauntlets. Not if or maybe. "I done like doin it wif a covah. It be betta in da flesh. " Boochit! " 3. If you want elegance, buy officer sabers. Yes you did, but somewhere you mentioned that any 1822 with the full length blade was not bad either. The gist I got was that the 1st gens are better, but the later ones are acceptable if you are a poor peasant working in the frozen ice mines of Canada. I could also be remembering incorrectly, hence why I tagged you. Gauntlets are a must indeed. If anything I am just afraid of making my antiques go all rusty. Never handled either the 1822 bancal or this one bare handed, and never will out of fear that it will melt like the German soldiers at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark bfoo2 was looking at an officers on ebay to compliment our collection. Its not a first class example, but trying to secure it for half the price of the troopers. Would be mainly for looks though - need some officers to keep the Troopers swords in line.
|
|
|
Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 29, 2016 0:06:01 GMT
Two comments: 1. I did tell you that 1st Generation 1822LCs are the preferred weapons for speed and "to the hand" performance. 2. When using any cavalry saber, wear gauntlets. Not if or maybe. "I done like doin it wif a covah. It be betta in da flesh. " Boochit! " 3. If you want elegance, buy officer sabers. Yes you did, but somewhere you mentioned that any 1822 with the full length blade was not bad either. The gist I got was that the 1st gens are better, but the later ones are acceptable if you are a poor peasant working in the frozen ice mines of Canada. I could also be remembering incorrectly, hence why I tagged you. Gauntlets are a must indeed. If anything I am just afraid of making my antiques go all rusty. Never handled either the 1822 bancal or this one bare handed, and never will out of fear that it will melt like the German soldiers at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark bfoo2 was looking at an officers on ebay to compliment our collection. Its not a first class example, but trying to secure it for half the price of the troopers. Would be mainly for looks though - need some officers to keep the Troopers swords in line. 1. I did say that. Matter of fact I'm sitting here with a newly cleaned M1822LC Chattelrault 1877, this very moment. Compared to a US M1840 this 1877 is a nice dragoon. Cuts and recoveries are easy to make, as are moulinets and double cuts. This is roughly equivalent to the US1860, however the 1822 has a longer grip. Might also try a handshake grip for cutting. (Just move the thumb to the side instead of on top of the grip. You sacrifice some point control with the handshake, but you get more heal of the hand into the grip. Little practice, there's plenty of room to move the thumb back to open grip for optimum point control. 3. Just make sure you get one firm and tight in the hilt. It's 200.00 to fix that. That and you're always better off getting a scabbard with the sword. It ups the resale value significantly. Enjoy in either case.
|
|
|
Post by bfoo2 on Nov 8, 2016 5:21:57 GMT
|
|
Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
|
Post by Uhlan on Nov 8, 2016 6:27:47 GMT
Interesting. Something strange is going on. The grip is an Officers bone grip of the 1882 model, while the hilt is a troopers of same. Troopers were not allowed to carrie private designs and still had the old leather over wood grips. Did someone plunk a troopers hilt on an Officers Degen? Another thing: The blade comes awfully close to a Prussian IOD 89. Virtually the same. Are we looking at a pastiche? I would like to see some stamps. Also, that price is way over the top. Private purchase sabres are not very much wanted by the ,, Real Connaisseurs ''. I would consider 50% - 60% less as a reasonable price if the numbers and stamps check out well.
|
|
|
Post by Afoo on Nov 8, 2016 18:28:10 GMT
It does have some F* pincoins and a stamp on the spine, though cannot make them out on my small screen.
On the 4th last pic - where the grip enters the pommel - it appears that things do not quite match up.
|
|
|
Post by bfoo2 on Nov 8, 2016 21:48:31 GMT
I should specify that I put this one up for "oh hey, isn't this neat?" vs a serious purchase consideration. To begin with I ain't got that sort of money lying around
It does look good though
|
|
Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
|
Post by Uhlan on Nov 10, 2016 8:23:02 GMT
Did some digging. Manufacture de ? Haussieres Fernsch Freres. That explains the F poincons. Nothing comes up. I think it was made in the Elsas. Fernsch is a German name. There is no Gebruder Fernsch in the German sword makers book, nor a Fernsch Freres in the French book. Google maps draws a blanc on Haussieres. Anyway, I think it was made by some small regional outfit. Quality wise that does not say much. I wish I had the measurements. It is hard to tell now whether it is a Degen with a version of the Prussian IOD89 blade, or a real pallasch. Something closer to the M1854 in gird. What does not change is the fact that the hilt is a troopers one and the grip an Officers. Something is not right. Also the price is way over the top. The blade is interesting though. I am a sucker for double fullers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 15:51:26 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Dave Kelly on Nov 10, 2016 22:53:32 GMT
Pablo's blade looks funkie. Angle of the pic maybe. The ebay is nice, but her expectations are out to lunch. Condition and matching marks might bring 1000.00; but I idn't pay that much for either of mine. Addendum: Talked to the ebay owner. Her bottom line on the sword is 1400.00. This is a post Napoleonic HC. Even in 5 star condition that is a tad high.
|
|