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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2016 21:19:53 GMT
Lol. Have fun with that XD
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Post by mrbadexample on Jul 31, 2016 22:48:07 GMT
"The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it." - Grandpa Simpson
I'm working on a couple designs too. This is fun.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 16:03:21 GMT
The next submissions were created by forum member MOK: A large-ish Fennoscandian style general purpose knife, suitable for hunting, eating, chores and arguments. Torahammas is Finnish for "fang" or "canine tooth". A simple dagger that's sort of like a miniature Japanese spear, or Ko-Yari. And a handy little fantasy utility knife in memory of Black Leaf, dead by GM fiat. I was thinking some sort of very dark (stained?) wood or micarta grip scales, maybe with brass for the pins and tubular rivet.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Aug 1, 2016 19:57:44 GMT
Alright, finally got some time to post this. What I based it on was a shinogi zukuri style tanto. In case I wasn't clear enough in the picture, the tsuba is supposed to be a perfect circle, not an oval. Also, I was thinking some kind of nicely finished wood or black lacquer for the tsuka. I've got another idea that needs working on; hope I'll have time to submit that as well.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 13:48:59 GMT
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Post by teclis22 on Aug 3, 2016 11:55:17 GMT
ohh so awesome. going to torture the paper tonight once i get off from work :P get of from work i forgot what the right Phrase is. one was.. nevermind.
Addon: can we write our own heat Treatment protocoll if you devulge the steel type ? would be soooooooooo awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 12:15:46 GMT
The steel is Admiral Steel 1075/1080. I just use the standard heat to above cherry red and quench in oil, as I don't have a heat treat oven. Unfortunately, I can't do a specialized heat treat unless I send it to a professional, which costs money. I've not yet had an issue with heat treatment. I could send it to LDriggers if you really wanted, as I know he has a heat treat oven, and he heat treats knives for a small cost. I can always ask him. That would be additional cost due to shipping there and back, as well as the heat treatment itself.
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Post by teclis22 on Aug 4, 2016 7:22:30 GMT
I will keep editing this post so all the Information is together. But since i do this from uhmm work i have to space it up over my breaks.
Design :
SFB-PRT-72716080509170.pdf (169.74 KB) <--- design file !
The scanner here in the Company mails the scans as pdf's no idea why. hope you can open it.
Parameters 1075 ( to stay under the eutectic Point and prevent the creation of carbides for Maximum sharpness), 3/16 thickness, flat saber grind with tanto tip, 1inch = 2,54 cm. the grid of the paper is 5mm, edge is full flat ground to ease the difficulty of "field" sharpening it, the guard is made from the 3/16" too, or similar thickness material (5mm).
Design Background I wanted a knife that is somewhat leagal to actually carry in Germany. So in addition to the Parameters set by Bennet the blade had to be <=12cm and single edged. Named "Straßenköter" roughly "street dog" or "street mutt". Functional enough to get along unnoticed but with enough bite if provoked. As its Name suggests it is meant to be carried and used by City slickers and the ocassional trip in the park.
Design Thoughs To lower the weight i went with a hidden Tang design. The guard doubles as thumb ramp. The tip is in line with the middle of the handle to allow a high energy Transfer. The tip will be quite strong with the upper false edge. The main cutting edge is Long enough to baton into 2" of Wood (if you follow Tom Brown philosophie) and the upper spine thickness is strong enough to abuse it for light prying if needed. The handle is suited for People with medium to large Hands. Small and XL Hands might find it uncomfortable. Reverse grip is possible. 2 Pins are neccesary to prevent a "hinge" effect. The 3rd pin is for my Need of a secure Feeling (Pins can be tubes too to save a few more grams). The lanyard hole is an inserted tube. when you epoxy the Tang into the handle you can slightly notch (rounded, NOT v-shape) the very edges of the Tang to add more surface to the glue to adhere to. The Point of Balance will depend on the density of the handle but should be roughly in the finger groove closest to the blade (a Little behind the guard).
handle: i went with a lightly curved design (in germany things here are iffy if that is curved more then 45° - go figure) as most people, me included, have trouble bending the wrist so far that you can get the knife straight. a more relaxed grip allows for more control wich i always recommend for any kind of cutting tool). i cant show it in the drawing as i would have to draw the knife looking down the blade. the tip pointing towards the user. in the lower part of the guard is a hole. that saves a tad more weight and gives the chance to add a d-guard if wanted later on.
Heat Treatment -----------------
would be cool if you do that, that way heat treatment is not a black hole and more experience can be gained to tweak the process for the next time. The goal is a fine grain, and rest-Austenite <2% and a high hardness as the blade is quite short.
edge thickness aprox 0,5 mm to prevent warping during heat treat
i think we can skip the normalizing as you most likely get it normalized from admiral and since you arent smithing but using stock removal there wont be much gain.
>>> please correct me if i am wrong. any expierenced HTer can chime in here ? main goal would be to recreate the crystal structure in the steel.
stress relieve.
After mechanical work (grinder) the steel should be allowed to release any inherent energy.
heat slowly (3k /min) to a little under AC1 (630°C only works in a dark room as that is the brown-glow-colour spectrum)
hold for approx 3 h let it cool slowly in the ashes, the gas forge (if it is set up for glowing operations) or vemiculate (aka. cat litter. The quality kind. fresh if possible... )
Close the holes with hardening paste of clay to reduce stress during HT
harden at 830-840°C (colour table: www.gs-forum.eu/attachments/technik-bastel-ecke-120/54464d1328964368-temperatur-auspuffkruemmer-glueh-und-anlassfarben_edelstahl_farbe02.jpg) [cherry red is not hot enough (780°C) you Need to go at least 1 step higher] hold time 3-5 mins
quench in oil, insert the blade spine first, straight down (no stabing Motion)
(deep cool immediately after, if that is not possible, "store" the blade in boiling water in the meantime, Mf is below room temperature at this carbon Content level)
deep cool in a mixture of dry ice + Ethanol (or Diethylether, wich ever is easier available for you) that has approx -75°C hold for at least 1 hour.
Tempering in a normal oven (do this when wife/gf/significant other is not in the house). It has to be preheated for at least 45mins to ensure an even temperature within. (as soon after the 1st deep cool as possible, if needed store the blade in boiling water)
1st temper at 200°C (set hardness) hold for 1 hour quench in cold Walter
if there is still cooling material left at this Point do another 1 hour cooling cycle
2nd temper at 200°C (set hardness) hold for 1 hour quench in cold water
if there is still cooling material left at this Point do another 1 hour cooling cycle
3rd temper at 160°C (stress relieve) hold for 1 hour let air cool to room temperature
very gently finish up the edge (takes a lot of Patience as the edge cant get above 200°C (in an area of about 10^-6, so really small)
differentially tempter/ harden if you are comforable with differentially harden you can add paste to the spine, just remove it before deep cooling, no need for a visible hamon (as the blade can be cerakoted due to the low process temperature of "only" 150-180°C for rust protection) you - could- differentailly temper the Tang afterwards with a burner but i advice against it, the Chance to hit blue-britelness is just too high and would significantly lower the blades life span.
Summary A very fun contest and thanks bennet for making this possible.
Best regards
tec
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 12:56:46 GMT
2 days left to enter and or finalize your submissions
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Post by demonskull on Aug 4, 2016 16:43:50 GMT
This is my entry ; a small utility fighter using 3/16" Hollow ground Sharpened false edge tapered tang
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 17:20:58 GMT
By tapered tang, am I correct to assume that you mean you want the thickness of the tang to narrow towards the pommel while remaining an exposed tang?
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Post by demonskull on Aug 4, 2016 17:33:55 GMT
Yes, that is correct. I'm including a pic of a tapered tang on from another knife: On a smaller fighter like this, it pushes the POB forward and aids in a slash or stab. The thumb rest on the spine will also grip better for batonning if needed.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2016 17:55:13 GMT
Cool. Good to know. I just wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 2:01:12 GMT
Tomorrow is the last day to enter the contest. Your designs must be posted and finalized by tomorrow night no later than 12pm EDT.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 12:22:26 GMT
Adrian Jordan's design: Knife is 9" overall, with a 4 and 3/4" blade, 5/8" X 1/8" finger choil(which I mislabeled as 3/4" in the picture), a 1 and 1/2" X 1/4" guard made of whatever metal you have or are most comfortable with, and a 4" handle. I'm looking at a semi shobu-zukuriesque blade shape, with a 3/4" cutting bevel and 1/4" flat(which I also mislabeled, this time as 1/2". At this point I'm not sure you should be paying any attention to any of my written measurements at all, hahaha). I'd like the plunge cut to start about 5/8" from the guard at the edge and end 7/8" above the guard. The flat of the cutting edge is intended to be 2 and 7/8" and then taper toward the tip. I believe that the 1/8" stock is the appropriate stock for the blade thickness. I'll leave the decision as to whether it has a flat grind with secondary bevel or has a convex edge from flat to edge up to you. Which ever you are more comfortable with. I'd like the handle to be a slab/sandwich design, with dark(preferably black) material used for the scales. I'd like each scale to be approximately 1/4" thick, and be secured by two pins and epoxy. Pin size can be whatever you have at your disposal. Pins should be centered about 3/4" from top and bottom of handle respectively. I'd like the bottom of the handle to have a slight downward curve starting at the front and sloping maybe 1/8" down to the back. I'd prefer the slab edges to be slightly rounded. The curve in the front edge of the handle should have a curve that goes in about 1/8" at it's apex approximately 1" below the guard and gently curve to the bottom. The picture will show you what I mean as far as the shape goes. Guard should be 1 and 1/2" from front to back, 1/4" thick, and be rectangular with rounded edges. Width should be 5/8" to match width of blade and scales. If a 1/4" thickness is too much, then use whatever you have available. All of these measurements may/should be considered approximate, and the maker may/should make any adjustments needed while constructing the knife to improve the design. What works best for you works best for me. Thanks for the opportunity to win, and good luck to everyone!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 13:13:40 GMT
teclis22 I am only able to see the design on my computer. I attempted to upload the picture to photobucket so that the design could be seen from mobile, but I was unable to do so. How can I upload the image so it can be seen here directly?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 13:33:22 GMT
It turns out that all I had to do was convert it from a PDF to a JPEG
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Post by MOK on Aug 5, 2016 16:19:14 GMT
Huh. Interesting geometry with the false edged "tanto" point there, teclis!
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Post by teclis22 on Aug 5, 2016 17:42:56 GMT
hey you did great. thanks for turning it into an image :) thanks Mok. i drool alot over knive images and this is inspired by some extrema ratios, TDI designs and some fantasy things i saw in the past heh.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 21:02:53 GMT
7 hours left to submit any designs. They must be submitted no later than 12pm EDT
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