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Post by Afoo on Feb 9, 2017 15:11:20 GMT
Hmm. I'll check mine, though mine has been given field blackening so may not be able to see. It has one ring as well.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 9, 2017 20:14:18 GMT
Would you mind to upload a picture of your scabbard field blackening? Mine was very dark brown, I took it for rust and patina as it came off quite easily, although now I may regret that slightly...oopsy
If I remember correctly, yours was made in 1877 right? Mine is 1876.
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Post by Afoo on Feb 9, 2017 22:52:23 GMT
Would you mind to upload a picture of your scabbard field blackening? Mine was very dark brown, I took it for rust and patina as it came off quite easily, although now I may regret that slightly...oopsy If I remember correctly, yours was made in 1877 right? Mine is 1876. I think its field blackening/field patina. It could be rust, but the uniformity led me to think it was done intentionally. I use "blackening" here to refer to generic field treatment to make it less shiny. I haven't looked at it too closely since my 1822 generally lives in a repro scabbard to avoid hidden nastiness - so I could be wrong as well
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Post by Afoo on Feb 10, 2017 6:16:33 GMT
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 10, 2017 6:40:47 GMT
Much much darker than what my scabbard was, mine was a chocolate color. I looked at my scabbard again and can't see any traces of a scabbard ring at all either. I wonder how they removed them, they seem quite sturdily put on
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Post by 1876 on Oct 2, 2017 7:47:33 GMT
i found a d'armes de Saint-Étienne Sword belong to a Great Marshal but we don't his name During French Occupation to Syria he give it as a gift for a big "Shaikh" ( l public leader of a big tripe in Syria there is a number printed there its 410 the serial number of this Sword i guess from the 3rd republic
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Post by pellius on Aug 13, 2018 17:54:41 GMT
This is a fantastic post. Thanks for the great information! After being inspired by this article, I got my paws on an 1829 mounted artillery officer saber. I like it quite a lot. Now I'm fortunate enough to have an 1822 LC headed my way, so I have been studying this article again, eager to learn what I can. I have one respectful question regarding: "From left to right: A. up untill 1850, B. before 1860 ( Here you can also see the tang is slightly more straight) and lastly: C. after 1860." Should this read, "From right to left?" Various internet sources seem to indicate that the rounded fuller termination is a feature of the 1822's made after (not before) 1860. For example: oldswords.com/articles/FRENCH%20LIGHT%20CAVALRY%20SWORD%201822%20MODEL%20-%20A%20classical%20Taste.pdf"The blades before 1860 haven’t the same fuller ending on the ricasso - the fuller ends in a curve after 1860 and a straight line before 1860." My inclination is pretty much to believe the info kindly provided by Uhlan. But in an abundance of caution, I thought maybe I should ask. Anyways, thanks again for such a thorough and insightful post.
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Post by likehotbutter on Aug 15, 2018 14:34:36 GMT
flat fuller termination is early production, mostly klingenthal full fuller is later production, mostly chatellerault
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Post by pellius on Aug 15, 2018 14:49:04 GMT
Thank you for the clarification.
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Post by pellius on Aug 25, 2018 17:00:14 GMT
Upon closer reading and a little poking around, I think the photo caption should read:
"Center: up untill 1850; Right: before 1860 (Here you can also see the tang is slightly more straight); and Left: after 1860."
As always, I’m happy to be corrected.
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 9, 2018 12:15:58 GMT
A little late, but what is your source?
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Post by pellius on Dec 9, 2018 17:31:06 GMT
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Post by pellius on Dec 9, 2018 17:40:30 GMT
It looks like your ‘43 in your article has a narrow ricasso straight termination, too.
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Dec 10, 2018 21:48:30 GMT
I have lifted the picture + text from l'Hoste. The examples bear this out. Early Klingenthal M1822 had almost no ricasso as seen in A. Just a little sticks out from under the washer. B is the intermediate, which is the slightly curved ricasso shown on my Chatellerault from 1843. With curved is meant not its edge with the blade, but the contour of the ricasso that follows the contour of the blade. It is slightly bulbous over the width. () This is the form used up to 1860 according to l'Hoste. After 1860 there is the flat plate ricasso. There may be slight differences between Klingenthal and Chatellerault( After 1836) Troopers versions, but this is the general rule, which seems to be reflected by reality. I do not see the problem.
The Ebay 1828 fits A. The washer is missing.
I stopped reading the Oldsword PDF as they, in Photo 3, think there is a Bancal in there. Those, as far as I can see, are all M1822 Troopers. The Bancal has three side bars and a much longer blade than the M1822. Oldswords is nice when one does an image search for an unknown sabre. Text information is often not very accurate though since the contend is not curated at all. Most of it is uploaded by sellers, not scholars.
Your M1822/24 also fits the l'Hoste pattern. This is a solid type A.
Cheers.
Edit: Now, on second read, I see the confusion. Somehow ,,fuller termination'' crept in. Though that also changes over time, the l'Hoste figure is about the length and the form of the ricasso.
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Post by vonmazur on Jan 10, 2019 5:37:16 GMT
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Post by Afoo on Jan 11, 2019 15:22:36 GMT
Excellent - I like the canvas cover!
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Post by bluetrain on Jan 24, 2019 13:42:51 GMT
I like the cover, too. I wonder if anyone is reproducing them? All the photos I've seen of French sabers post-WWI show leather reinforcing on the cover below the scabbard ring and also at the tip. There are three in the illustration I am looking at and they have different methods of securing the cover, either laces or what looks like clips. Japanese swords generally had similar covers in WWII.
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Post by Polyester on Mar 2, 2020 17:30:33 GMT
A little late, but I still want to show it. Sabre d Officier de Cavalerie légère Modèle 1822 for artillery officers with the designation Mle 1822-1899 The blade inscription: Manufacture nationale d'armes de Chatellerault Mai 1916 - Offer d'Artrie Mle 1822-99Noteworthy on the scabbard are the mouth plate and the tractor. Both are made of non-magnetic material. I suspect Maillechort (Neusilber, German nickel silver).
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Post by Polyester on Mar 2, 2020 17:36:26 GMT
And a German artilleryman with a captured saber.
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Post by Tony Papa on Mar 16, 2020 7:55:17 GMT
Hi Uhlan.
I am really impressed by your skills, and enjoyed this reading.
Only thing is. I wonder what this mystery Eau d’Uhlan is! I guess it is vinegar mixed with salt? Otherwise you must drink a whole lot of water to fill a bucket!
Can you share the secret for a good scabbard war paint?
Many greets from this newbie.
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