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Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 12, 2015 10:14:00 GMT
That is quite impressive Dave. Now I want an 1822 HC. How is the handling by comparison? 2.6 lbs with a 38x1.12in blade. Hand lance meant to repalce the ANXIII pallasche. ( Could this be the real reason the monarchy was overthrown?) A tad slower than the LC, but like the other good 1822 it is very smooth handling. Sweet dragoon that had a shorter lifespan than the LC. Replaced by the more desirable M1854 pallasche. I just sold one of my 1822HCs on ebay to make space for the St Cyr officer presentation.
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Post by paulrward on Oct 13, 2015 2:31:14 GMT
Hello Mr. Kelly ;
First, that is an awesome restoration job. I have always felt that a well restored weapon that is ready for combat is far superior to an old, patinated ( meaning rusty ) weapon that neither looks nor would perform as it was meant to do.
Second, have you considered Nickel Plating ? You might want to check your local area to see if there is a local plating shop that might give it a good nickel plate for a reasonable price. ( They could probably throw it in with another run, and get it done in a very short time ) . The scabbard would need an initial copper plate, and then the nickel, but it would come out looking like new.
Just a stupid idea.......
Respectfully ;
Paul R. Ward
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Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 13, 2015 4:34:17 GMT
Paul:
Heck, you and Uhlan are the real handymen around here. Thanks to you folks that I would even dare to try and clean up what I so admire. Plating would be great for some things, but when fine detail is involved I'm concerned over preservation of makers marks and etching. I own some restored items that were replated and polished and there is a loss of detail on them, diminishing the quality of the restoration. Hand polishing works out better, albeit it is a very tedious process. ( That's the one drawback about the immersion treatment; it dulls the whole blade demanding a lot of polishing to bring back the luster.)
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Oct 13, 2015 11:32:19 GMT
Where old plate can look quite nice, new plate can have a gaudy look. Too flashy. Nickle plating came into its own after 1871, so in my view, plating a scabbard from say 1855 does not work that well. Too obvious someone fiddled with it and many collectors would not appriciate the effort. No problems with an M1882 though. And Dave is right. I forgot to mention that. The steel takes on a grey tint, not deep though and quite easy to remove, but still. This thin grey layer looks a bit like faked age patina induced by household vinagre solution, which is funny as there are no acids in the mix. Still, the time and enery won with the immersion process, even with the time lost in cleaning up afterwarts, is considerable. I'd rather spend more time and energy in the final polish and leave the basics to the chemicals, if possible. It would be nice to have access to someone who could analyse the compound and isolate the working substance. Could save a lot of money when it is possible to make your own solution. Like with bluing solution. 10$ for a small bottle, enough $$ to buy a bunch of Selenium Oxide to last for years. The rest is destilled water.
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Post by paulrward on Oct 13, 2015 20:02:09 GMT
Hello Mr. Uhlan ;
With regards to Vinegar: Vinegar is itself an acid, that is, it is slightly diluted Acetic Acid ( CH3COOH ). Vinegar is what is referred to as a ' Weak ' Lewis Acid, but it is still strong enough to hydrolize Iron oxide, especially red rust ( Fe2O3 ). Another good rust remover is what is known as 'Naval Jelly' ( which is NOT the same as Toe Jam ) a pink sort of gunk you can buy at any hardware store. It is dilute Phosphoric Acid, you brush it on the blade, wait, and then wash it off. It leaves that grey surface on the steel, but gets the rust out of any pits in the metal, and you can then polish the metal using something like 600 wet and dry paper with a little mineral oil, such as ' 3-in-one ' oil. This will give a nice brushed, silvery blade that is neither too gaudy nor too new looking. It also gets the rust out, and halts any further deterioration of the blade.
Sorry. I'm a chemist by training.
As for Nickel Plating being gaudy, after plating, it can be very lightly brushed with ' 4-0 ' steel wool, which gives it a very nice semi matte appearance.
Respectfully ;
Paul R. Ward
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Oct 13, 2015 20:56:07 GMT
Hello Paul.
Thank you for your comment. What I meant with the ,,no acid in the mix'', is that in the Picreator is no acid of any kind. Therefore it is safe to let a rusty object sit in it for a long time. The grey layer which developes is comparable with the grey layer developing after using vinager or other acids. Though vinager is not very strong, it will eat the steel when the object is immersed too long in the vinager solution. One should never use vinager, undilludet or not, without keeping an eye on it all the time and stopping the process by dunking the object in ammonia. Thanks for the tip on the Naval Jelly and brushing the nickel plate. Since you are a chemist: what are your thoughts on what could be the working substance in Picreator? It is not an acid, that is for sure. All I know is that when the object is immersed in the Picreator/water solution, after a while the solution starts foaming just a bit. So, that would mean gasses are forming? When the object is removed from the Picreator the steel will have a rather thick layer of a black sludge on top of the, now, grey surface. I hope this will give you a clue as to what is causing the Picreator to work. Oh and by the way, please call me Ulahn. I insist.
Cheers.
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Post by paulrward on Oct 14, 2015 17:47:18 GMT
Hello Uhlan ;
According to their website, the Picreator solution is an " Amine complex of hydro-oxycarboxilic acid in aqueous solution. pH: approx 4.0 "
Now, a pH of 7.0 is neutral, 15.0 is alkaline ( basic ) and from 0 to 7 is acid. The description sounds like it is a mixture of Ammonia and Vinegar. (This is what is often found in most metal polishes, along with some fine polishing compound. ) The Blue color in probably a little food coloring, like Blue No. Whatever .
The bubbles that form are what form whenever you expose a metal to an Acid: Hydrogen. This is not harmful, as long as the exposure is limited to a few minutes, or long enough to get rid of the corrosion.
Respectfully ;
Paul R. Ward
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Oct 14, 2015 21:06:03 GMT
Hello Paul.
Thank you for sorting out the Picreator. Great work! So, ammonia and vinegar are the working substances. I have to do some experiments. Ammonia is probably used to cut down oil and fat. Vinegar is not good at that. It must have a clean service to work in optimum. What I do not get is how they can say it is safe, when they use acids, though in low consentration. Vinegar eats thick verde gris on bronze in a couple of hours. Dark oxydation in matter of minutes. Gun blue in seconds. The percentage in the Picreator must be very small, yet high enough to cut. The ammonia maybe slows down the acid too. Thank you very much again. This can save some $$.
Cheers.
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