|
Post by Dave Kelly on Aug 28, 2015 14:49:40 GMT
Richard Marsden, Phoenix Society of Historical Swordsmanship, has focused for several years on exploration of classic sabre art developed in Poland. This is one avenue of western intergration of a turkic form of sabre widely adopted in the muslim world and carried to europe over some 500 years of combat. l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FPolish-Saber-Richard-Marsden%2Fdp%2F0984771654&h=JAQHse-3-There has been a developing HEMA undercurrent of classical sabre study. ( For sports sabremen who find school sabre too tame... :) ) After several years of study Richard has pulled off an internationally cooperative effort, with other sabre students, to address Polish method. Not an easy task, as this method is anecdotal rather than formally survived. This is an entertaining and informative book, abundantly photgraphed and illustrated with a easy reading text. Do wish I was younger, just too much fun from the looks of the video. Highly recommended
|
|
|
Post by Lancelot Chan on Aug 28, 2015 15:01:44 GMT
They are very good. Richard is very very impressive. I told him so personally.
|
|
|
Post by Bertek on Aug 29, 2015 17:37:59 GMT
Richard made a great effort in re-creating the lost art. There is an outfit in Poland that is also trying to revive Polish Saber and they have their own take on it that is very dynamic and is worth checking out: Sieniawski Fencing
|
|
|
Post by Dave Kelly on Aug 29, 2015 21:05:36 GMT
Richard made a great effort in re-creating the lost art. There is an outfit in Poland that is also trying to revive Polish Saber and they have their own take on it that is very dynamic and is worth checking out: Sieniawski FencingThanx. Have watched their older output, they interjected quite a bit of theatric flare in the past. The new soundbites are interesting.
|
|
|
Post by StevenJ on Aug 31, 2015 5:01:11 GMT
I watched the ones from the Arizona school Skallgrim posted a few days ago. It would benefit me as I have replica Hussar sabers for sparing and sharps.
|
|
|
Post by Bertek on Aug 31, 2015 15:15:06 GMT
Richard made a great effort in re-creating the lost art. There is an outfit in Poland that is also trying to revive Polish Saber and they have their own take on it that is very dynamic and is worth checking out: Sieniawski FencingThanx. Have watched their older output, they interjected quite a bit of theatric flare in the past. The new soundbites are interesting. Sieniawski's videos are unfortunately primarily adverts for their seminars. As you point out the new short videos are much more instructional. However, I think the cross cut style they teach is closer to how Poles and other Eastern people used a saber on foot during that time period which would naturally have a more Near Eastern influence due to the Commonwealths geographic location and enemies of the period. I like and respect what Richard and his group did, but their style seems more reflective of Western fencing (footwork, moulinets, etc.) than Eastern.
|
|
|
Post by Dave Kelly on Aug 31, 2015 22:32:11 GMT
I have expressed a similar concern about cross influences. Richard had asked me to help with the westward propogation of the sabre, but the more I read the dummer I felt and had to withdraw. Poland took in western mercs and teachers almost as fast as they had embraced the sabre. Begs the question on how Polish style evolved given their own past.
|
|
|
Post by Bertek on Sept 1, 2015 0:47:37 GMT
I would imagine that 18th and 19th Century Western calvary saber practice as found in manuals such as 1796 Rules and Regulations for the Sword Exercise of the Cavalry are based on Eastern European calvary practices (as is the 'hussar saber' itself) and thus would be quite similar. The style between East and West differs more for the foot fighting style as the West had the cut&thrust/rapier/smallsword traditions while Eastern Europeans after the Golden Horde invasions tended to keep using the saber on foot. Poland historically was further East than is reflected by its current post WWII borders. They had quiet a bit of interaction with the Hungarians, Turks, and Tatars and their armor, dress, coats of arms, and weapons reflect this. Some other videos of related interest might include these of Eastern sword practice: Persian Indian Turkish
Of course I'm sure much of that is as speculative as anything HEMA, etc., come up with.
|
|
Aikidoka
Member
Monstrous monk in training...
Posts: 1,451
|
Post by Aikidoka on Sept 1, 2015 1:17:23 GMT
Thanks for posting this, Dave! The Phoenix Society of Historical Swordsmanship practices nearby, but in the past, they have only had practice on Saturday mornings (which I can't attend). This post reminded me to check their website and they have expanded to 4 days a week. I'm going to stop by this Thursday to check out the class
|
|
|
Post by Derzis on Sept 1, 2015 1:24:14 GMT
Interesting vid. Thanks for sharing
|
|
|
Post by StevenJ on Sept 1, 2015 5:48:54 GMT
Well Richard seemed like he knew what he was talking about in this video with the cross cuts.
|
|
|
Post by adtharp on Sept 30, 2015 14:37:15 GMT
This is really cool stuff - I really like it. As the historical fencing instructor at my club, I am definitely going to pick up his book and give it a try. I noticed that Purpleheart has some synthetics.
Any recommendations for a relatively cheap blunt that could be used for controlled training and one steps?
How about Universal - anything they have that might do the trick? (I was thinking the Austro-Hungarian or Princess of Wales...)
I've never used a Universal before - what do we think?
|
|
Aikidoka
Member
Monstrous monk in training...
Posts: 1,451
|
Post by Aikidoka on Sept 30, 2015 17:45:27 GMT
I believe Richard's book lists some recommended training weapons. If no one else responds before I have a chance, I'll post his recommendations here. EDIT: Hmm... the recommended website from the book, www.HollywoodCombatCenter.com, doesn't seem to exist anymore.
|
|
|
Post by adtharp on Oct 2, 2015 19:54:44 GMT
I would definitely be interested in hearing his recommendations! Thanks!
|
|
Aikidoka
Member
Monstrous monk in training...
Posts: 1,451
|
Post by Aikidoka on Oct 2, 2015 20:20:52 GMT
Unfortunately, as I mentioned in my edited comment above, the swords recommended at the end of the book were made by David Baker (Hollywood Combat Center) and his website doesn't seem to exist anymore.
|
|
|
Post by adtharp on Oct 3, 2015 18:22:34 GMT
Hmm, yea, from the first few links that pop up on google, I don't think I will do business with them.
Dave - any thoughts on universal's offerings?
|
|
|
Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 4, 2015 1:34:19 GMT
Hmm, yea, from the first few links that pop up on google, I don't think I will do business with them. Dave - any thoughts on universal's offerings? Definately consider the Prince of Wales an on target sabre. The "coffin hilt" is a polish designed sabre. Blade unsharpened is 1050 carbon steel. Weight and length of blade is more suitable to mounted use. Don't know adequacy of tempering. Pretty stiff and heavy to consider for fencing. But excellent for training.
|
|
|
Post by charisma on Oct 5, 2015 4:01:43 GMT
If that is very excellent for training, how many times have you had a practice using that weapon? I can never imagine how I will ever feel when I could possibly touch and used it during training of fencing. _______________________ nunchucks
|
|
|
Post by zabazagobo on Oct 5, 2015 18:24:37 GMT
Really cool videos, thanks for sharing. The first person view video was awesome, its much more immersive and could be a really great idea to translate into formal instructional videos. Although I'm a katana fan myself, I like to practice one handed so these techniques are pretty cool and will be integrated into my daily practice.
|
|
|
Post by StevenJ on Oct 10, 2015 13:10:43 GMT
Hmm, yea, from the first few links that pop up on google, I don't think I will do business with them. Dave - any thoughts on universal's offerings? Another choice if you are on a budget like me. www.outfit4events.com/eur/product/2206-polish-sabre-piotr/I just bought this model from outfit4events and this saber is made by Fabri Armourum. It's a bit on the short side admittedly but the saber is light, fast, and the mild steel hilt with thumb ring is extremely durable. Plus some Hussar sabers were a bit short with only a 28 inch blade which is what this one has so it's not outside the realm of historical possibility. If you do get it, you may want someone to rewrap the grip or tidy up the blade edge, other than that it's a great choice for the money. Plus the stock grip and edge will work fine for drilling as it is taught. I didn't post photos of mine yet but I will eventually.
|
|