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Post by alvin on Apr 18, 2008 16:28:18 GMT
One of my personal heroes is Wade Hampton III, who was a Warrior/Statesman from South Carolina. This man was truly a fighting general, who personally fought hand-to-hand in many engagements during the War Between the States. After the death of J.E.B. Stuart, Hampton led the Cavalry Division of the Army of Northern Virginia until the close of the war.
Hampton was known to have owned several swords which he used in combat during the war. While I have read much about the man, I have yet to find a photograph of any of these swords. I have found a brief description of one of Hampton's favorite swords which he had used during the war and it apparently shows battle damage. It was donated to the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond, Virginia by Hampton's sister. It is described as having a double-edged imported Prussian blade, a leather finger loop inside the grip, a motto in Spanish on the blade - In English - "Draw me not without reason - Sheath me not without honor". The blade was made by Kraft, Goldschidt, and Kraft. I have read that the sword is over 46 inches in overall length.
I am throwing this out to you all in the hope that some of the many knowledgeable Forum members may be able to assist me with a photo of this sword, or possibly the identity of the Prussian blade. I have spent a lot of time web searching with no luck. I know that Jonathan Hopkins is very familiar with 19th century military swords. Also, ShayanMirza, and some of the other guys who live in Virginia may have even seen this sword on display in Richmond.
edit Thanks in advance!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2008 17:00:06 GMT
I can promise a Richmond trip sometime in June after I resettle, but I'll go search the interwebz right now to see what I can rustle up...
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Post by randomnobody on Apr 18, 2008 17:07:49 GMT
I'm just outside of Richmond... I wonder how far off that museum is? ...A quick look-up on google maps says about 7.6 miles down the road, 18 minutes driving. I bet I could make that in 45 on a bike...wait, no, no bikes on 64. I could go the back way, but I'm not familiar with the area. I suppose I'll have to catch a ride in someday.  There's a quick overview of the museum's swords here: www.moc.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ce_col_artifacts#swordsYour guy gets a mention, even: |
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Post by alvin on Apr 18, 2008 17:08:50 GMT
Thanks Shayan. I try to use the www, but just can't get the hang of all it's possibilities. I do have my successes, but I know that I miss a lot. Just too old for this new fangled contraption. Hey, I remember when transistor radios were the latest thing. Thanks again.
edit And to you random - Thanks! See, you guys understand the Web and how to use it to it's utmost. Maybe someday me too, but with my vacuum tube brain in this microchip world, I just don't know.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2008 18:03:45 GMT
Sorry, after a straight hour of every search engine and site I could think of, I haven't found any pics.
BUT, I'd wager the nice folks at the museum might have a pic on hand or 5 minutes to spend taking one and emailing it if you email them or give them a call?
I did find some amazing pics of JEB Stuart's sword, and Stonewall Jackson's and General Lee's...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2008 18:15:39 GMT
Me either tried every search I could think of and then some.
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Post by randomnobody on Apr 18, 2008 18:44:47 GMT
Perhaps some time in the next week I'll persuade mother into an afternoon trip and hope cameras are allowed. If none of you are having any luck online, I doubt I will. |
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Post by alvin on Apr 18, 2008 18:55:35 GMT
Wow, you guys are great. Thank you again. I have tried for several months, found lots of info and mentions of the sword, but no photos.
Shayan I'll try that phone call to the museum when I can get through, sometimes calling out of country can be iffy. I'm going to look for those other sword photos that you mentioned.
harpersgrace Thanks for taking the time to search. I appreciate it.
random Thanks again to you. If I can get through to the museum, I'll try and find out if the sword is still there. The info that I've found says that Hampton's sister donated it, so that was probably quite a few years back. But, from the site you posted, it seems that they do have it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2008 19:12:53 GMT
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Post by hotspur on Apr 18, 2008 19:34:25 GMT
Here is a thread elsewhere that touches on his sword being pictured in books. forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?p=997324The sword has also been out for exhibition and may still be in a South Carolina exhibit. Cheers Hotspur; always more books to maybe check out at a library, if not buy |
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Post by alvin on Apr 18, 2008 19:59:38 GMT
Hey Hotspur, thanks for the info, and tip RE S.C. I seem to be getting better at this web searching. I found a newsletter from the Columbia, SC chapter of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, dated Jan. 2006, in which there is a article stating that Hampton's sword had been transferred to the South Carolina Confederate Relic Room, Columbia. I went to their site, found no photo of the sword, but I sent them an email requesting a photo. Hopefully this will be what I've been looking for. I still have hope that Jonathan Hopkins, or one of you other Forumites, will recognize the description of the Prussian blade used in this sword and possibly post a photo. Again, thanks to you all for your speedy help.
edit And karma as I recharge.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2008 21:53:49 GMT
I am not familiar with this sword, but I will see what I can find. There was a Prussian who fought for the CSA by the name of Johann August Heinrich Heros von Borcke. He was something like 6'4" 240 lbs. and carried a large sword made in Solingen. I have not been able to find a photo of his sword online, but it is in one of my books. I just need to find it. von Borcke fought under the command J.E.B. Stuart, BTW.
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Post by alvin on Apr 18, 2008 23:18:52 GMT
Hey Jonathan. I appreciate your help. In the swordforum posting given by Hotspur above, Hotspur discusses von Borcke's sword. It sounds very similar, if not the same blade type, to the one(s) used by Hampton. Do you know of any Prussian military blades fitting the one I described above? Being double edged seems to be quite different than the usual 19th century military sword.
On another note, I contacted the SC Confederate Relik Room (SCCRR) in Columbia, SC, and it appears that the sword is there, but SCCRR cannot send a photo of the sword as I requested.
Dear Mr. Simmons,
The Wade Hampton sword you read about is on loan to our museum from the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond. Since they are the owners, you will have to contact them for photographs of their objects. We do not have permission to distribute photographs of loaned items.
Sincerely,
Rachel H. Cockrell
Registrar
SC Confederate Relic Room and Military Museum
301 Gervais St.
Columbia, SC 29201
803-737-8020
So, I'll try to contact them, the Richmond, VA museum, with a request. Thanks again everyone.
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Post by hotspur on Apr 19, 2008 7:24:43 GMT
There are a couple of pictures of von Borcke with swords that I had posted in another thread at SFI some time ago. A fellow named Claus offered up some explanation for those ~~~~~ The reference to French swords was in reply to my remarking that the French cuirassier swords were somewhat similar. Long and double edged. I had posted a link from a site that is now dead. I'll poke around for it again but it doesn't show a sword used by these guys. Andre is kind of the designated Confederate States sword scholar over at SFI. His notes on Hampton, von Borcke and their swords are probably more studied than most. I had found Claus' comments and images interesting and include them here. The French long straight jobs of the mid 19th century look very much like the hilts of many ACW sabres but on long double fullered double edged blades. Cheers Hotspur; the French kept shortening them as the century wore onSomething along the lines of these www.zietenhusar.de/kurassierdegen.html |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2008 13:39:17 GMT
I just read using one of those Amazon "search this book" features, in one of Wade Hampton's biographies, that one of his most famous swords was a gift from Joe Johnston--a 3 foot 8.5 inch braodsword of Spanish steel or manufacture. That's all I could find, though. Another source claimed it weighed 6 pounds, not impossible, but I can't see why he'd use it in battle if it was...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2008 15:00:17 GMT
From the Time-Life book Arms and Equipment of the Confederacy:
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Post by hotspur on Apr 19, 2008 17:56:10 GMT
There is a Mexican officer's long pointy broadsword sticky thing pictured over at David Park's site but he fails to show the whole thing at once. Maybe it is pretty huge. I can see maybe six pounds in a heavy scabbard and maybe that www.relicsofhistory.com/weap71.htmlThere are Juan Perez' great pages on Spanish Cavalry swords that shows the evolution both before and after the 19th century and points to the heritage of some of the big Spanish blades that do seem to turn up from Mexico. As a good many officers of the American Civil War were veterans of the Mexican war, it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine some were quite familiar with such Spanish blade examples. I don't have any good refrence for what might have been coming in from Spain via the Gulf trade or more directly. perso.wanadoo.es/jjperez222/tropacab_e.htmHere is the other picture Claus is referencing of Heros von Borcke. I'm honestly can't say when either picture was taken. I'm sure that is referenced with certainty somehwere. If I'm not mistaken, he was born in 1835, so not an old man at the time of the ACW. A couple of wifes and a lifetime later, he tipped the scales at close to four hundred pounds later in life. I can somewhat identify with that  (not yet but a scary thought) This picture must have been a bit earlier.  Cheers Hotspur; 240 was a healthier fighting weight for me too |
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Post by hotspur on Apr 19, 2008 18:23:34 GMT
I meant to also touch on Franz Sigel as another ACW figure. Classically trained in a German miliitary academy, he went from a director of the public school system to Union General Lyon's right hand man. There is a page out there that describes Lyon parading into St Louis with his Hessians and their large terrible swords (paraphrased. No better description than that but as related or written by a witness, I imagine many were somewhat new to seeing arms en masse and earlier militia swords were often on a slightly smaller scale. Here is Sigel pictured with yet another long straight sword. I don't have a hard date for this one either.  Cheers Hotspur; I can't really pick sides on a romantic or passionate scale as I had ancestral first cousins from Missouri fighting for both interestsAdding this. The soldiers and sailors database is a great place to start if beginning to look at family or individual involvement. Many sates now also have card files online via pdf files. www.itd.nps.gov/cwss/ |
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Post by alvin on Apr 19, 2008 21:17:49 GMT
Thanks for the postings guys!  " It is described as having a double-edged imported Prussian blade, a leather finger loop inside the grip, a motto in Spanish on the blade - In English - "Draw me not without reason - Sheath me not without honor". The blade was made by Kraft, Goldschidt, and Kraft. I have read that the sword is over 46 inches in overall length. " I was looking through some old magazines, and found an article in an old issue of Military Classics Illustrated. The front of the article about Civil War revolvers had a photo of revolvers, uniforms and other items, including a very large, double-edged sword. This sword seems to be VERY close to the description for Hampton's Prussian bladed sword that I related above. It even has the Spanish motto that Hampton's sword had - In Spanish " No Me Saques Sin Razon" or in English - "Draw me not without reason". Also, Hampton's sword was described as 46 inches in overall length. Judging by the revolvers appearing in the photo, some of which are around 14 inches in length, it appears that the pictured sword may be pretty large in overall length. The magazine does not identify the sword, but I think that the pictured sword is probably a sister of Hampton's sword.  I hope to receive a photo of Hampton's sword from the Museum of the Confederacy soon. I appreciate your help in my search. edit - That "Mexican"? sword sure meets the description..I wonder if it's German made. I've seen those Spanish swords before. They also come close. It's the double-edged Prussian blade part of the sword's description that's causing the problems. Thanks Hotspur for the Civil War site. |
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Post by Polyester on Feb 1, 2020 11:01:02 GMT
This sword was later called non-German. Maybe Netherlands. But I am not sure. At least there is a W with a crown on the blade. Wilhelm or Willem?
Greetings from zietenhusar.de,
Thomas
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(not yet but a scary thought) This picture must have been a bit earlier.
