best sabre for forms

i personally like the 1796 light cavalry saber.

Hi Larry,

Although I have not bought from Legendary Arms, I have browsed their site quite a bit. What I have seen of their photos does show newly made swords. At a quick glance, especailly at some distance, the India reproductions do look pretty good. That most of LA's stuff looks better than the lower tier of reproductions (sub-$100) is why I mention to folk to shop around and be aware that some cheaper stuff really isn't worth the time of day if you want something less anachronistic.

Deepeeka, as an example, produces some really horrid looking American Civil War stuff, along with many other truly miserable looking cheap swords. Take that up a notch and we see what Cold Steel and Military Heritage sell, supplied from such sources as www.weaponedge.com and other better quality producers.
Compared to Deepeeka, a lot of product looks a whole more like the originals until you start looking closely. Color of the brass, blade grinds, scabbard fittings, casting definition and form (on and on).

My College Hill reproduction was from a different source than Legendary Arms but is also listed there. I have a fair amount of faith in that they source from the same folk that I bought from.

www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catpg8.htm

I often bring them up as an example but they are not the only ones that will sell you a $79 light cavalry, or a much better one for $129. I can't stress that enough.

There are many merchants/sutlers for ACW swords and you'll see the same price differences over and over again. While I can appreciate folk shopping within their means, this is really a niche where bang for the buck is very much going to be that you get more for a bit more money.

Was there a particular Legendary Arms photo that looked like an antique to you? I'll be glad to rethink my position but what I see is simply the better grade of reproductions. If I were to put up pictures of an original College Hill (I think I have somewhere here) the differences really jump right out. I would say buy with confidence from these folk and I don't think you'd be dissapointed.

Cheers

Hotspur; even the Military Heritage stuff looks wonderful if you haven't spent a fair amount of time studying originals

As I am not a schooled fencer but remembering my mom's foils well, finding a reproduction that handles nicely lively may be a real task. The mislabeled 1830 from Cold Steel got good marks very early on from back yard enthusiasts. I may be mistaken but it sure does look quite similar to the Military Heritage offering and it has been written that the supplier there is www.weaponedge.com

My own thought when shopping for a repro was that a cavalry sword reproduction might just be too ungainly. This, considering what I found to be true of even a foot officers sword. The grinds simply don't duplicate period swords. This puts more weight further out the blade and the mass distribution (relating to dynamic balance) results in pretty clunky and wrist unfriendly pieces.

On the other side of the coin is what one gets used to and adapts to and that makes me a bit hesitant to suggest a particular sword and then have someone be completely dissatisfied for their purpose. Having kind of stopped in my purchases of reproductions to pursue antiques, the difference in feel has been quite remarkable.

Bear with me here as I am likely to veer right of course. Very real and sound military antiques abound. What exactly is the intended use? My oldest swords are often handled in flourishes and some rudimentary drilling but (most) are not being cut with and there is no blade contact going on. If the background and use is going to be centered on strictly in line fencing technique, Hanwei markets some fencing sabres that have become quite poplular. A very available and handy antique is the American 1902 sword for all officers, which I note LA offers as a reproducton. Consider though the vast expanse of originals out there, usually priced below $250.

On the reproductions, I would really have to say that go with your gut on blade length, blade curve and imagined use. if you want a sharp, Cold Steel or one of the Windlass retailers offering sharpening might best suit you. If you want it more for drilling, or have experiece sharpening, LA or MH may be the way to go for a sabe you see as you. I was particularly drawn to the last sword listed on the Military Heritage page here,
www.militaryheritage.com/swords1.htm
a French infantry officer's sword but ended up making my choice based on other factors besides looks. These folk have a wide variety and offer kind of the best of the rest, aside from the American patterns.

As also mentioned in other sabre threads are these folk
www.chevalierdauvergne.com/ As real a deal as you might find but pricier than the India and China produced reproductions.

Cheers

Hotspur; hopefully that is at all helpful

Ok but keep in mind this is a wee infantry piece, only about as long as the blade of the Wundes I picture after that (well, a little longer).

Total length, peen to point: 85cm

Blade length, straight line guard to point: 72cm

Depth of curve (sori) mid blade: 48mm (closer to 49 but right around <2")

Blade width at ricasso: 33mm

tapers midway to: 28mm

Widest 10cm from the point: 33mm

Distal taper is what would be refered to as concave and I've broken the measurements into about 20-23cm distance increments. There is no false (back) edge

Spine thickness at ricasso: 7mm >4.5mm >3mm

Spine thickness 1cm from point 1mm

The primary bevel from fuller to edge, at roughly the same points:

3.5mm >2.5mm >2.5mm and 1mm yet again behind the edge at the point.

The fuller is 52cm long and profile tapers from 18mm to 15mm at about half its length and them to roughly 10mm, some 10cm before it fades. What I don't have accurately is the depth of the fuller at these points but it seems pretty consistent for the length and I get about 1.5mm depth (less than 2mm) that means that about halfway down the blade, the floor thickness is only a couple/three mm thick.

What am I forgetting? Trivia, the grip is steamed and pressed horn. Gilt on brass, those shots were about halfway through cleaning.
Oh yes I remember know. The weight.




Wait for it


Guesses?


Darksword did not make this.


Really, I've got it now.


It's not in grams or kilos, sorry

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One pound and six ounces

Cheers

Hotspur; the Wundes blade is 10mm (>3/8") thick at the hilt but tapers out to very thin at the point as well (81-82cm blade length on that one)

I do agree that is one very frustrating aspect and why I had spent much time shopping a great deal before deciding not just on a reproduction sabre that met my needs but who I bought from. However, I'm someone that watched the reproduction market of about a decade before even buying my first Europen criciform type. Believe me, some old swords I'm stalking right now raise some of the same questions. Is it late 18th century, or forty years later? A screaming bargain if it is a pre1800 eagle pommel but, ya blah, not bad, could have done better for the price 1830s piece. I actually need to talk to that guy on the phone a bit but my real hunch is that it is the latter and the bargain"price reflects the later retro bird. I'm just glad the site doesn't have a cart system, or I would be finding out by just ordering it.

I've not really looked at Loyalist Arms greatly and don't want to be dimissive of other's takes on things but considering the absolute junk they are selling, there is only one way to be certain. Order the Cold Steel, Military Heritage, International Military Antiques (IMA) and Loyalist Arms offerings and return all but the one you find most appealing. ;D It also goes a bit to what Larry earlier asked; is the product going to be as pictured?

Plow through the Deepeeka webpage and www.weaponedge.com and notice some real differences in visual quality (no, I don't work for these guys). Then check out some of the threads here. One comes to mind of someone that was pleased for the money but started his pondering with wondering why one sword cost more than the other, presented links stating they were the same thing and they were actually entirely different swords. A lot of retailers don't make it easy to determine particulars from the pictures but the webpages often speak for themselves.

What can I say? I am quite underwhelmed by what I have seen at Loyalist Arms and they actually get panned from someone in the movie industry as goods suitable only for extras and costuming, not for a more serious re-enactor or sword enthusiast. [paraphrased from a Luke Fontaine explanation concerning MAster & Commander and Pirates Of The Carribean]

I know you are not of new experience kriegschwert and less likely than some to complain that their nylon ito wasn't superglued to the tsuka but c'mon, some sites and products really do speak for themselves. I can only stress looking at period swords closely (not just for reference but also possible adoption) and spend a couple of days at import/export sites like www.indiamart.com to open up some cans of worms for your own benefit.

In closing, some of the cheaper 1796 reproductions over the years have revealed some interesting traits when they failed. Things like threaded half (length, not just threaded as an ententios) tangs inside plastic grips. Rivets through the ears that are only for show and don't even go through the tang. More anachronistic appearance but hey, they looked good in the website picture and "just like" all the others.

Cheers

Hotspur; I promise to o look at Loyalist Arms again but it makes me a bit dizzy and nauseous

Okay, ya got me on this one, G. I compared the photos side-by-side, and you're certainly right. The backstrap on the MH model is decidedly less angular and more graceful. The grip on the LA also appears to taper a bit upwards near the guard, whereas, the MH is straight. Finally, the MH scabbard has decidedly smaller rings on it. Also, I misquoted MH's price. I was mistakenly looking at the HEAVY 1796. The LCS is actually $199 USD.

Thanks for the link. Sounds like fit and finish are more than adequate for the price. The only thing I question is the use of EN-8 (1040) @ 38HRC, if that's truly the case. Fine for reenactment purposes, which is the main purpose for these swords, I guess, but I'm not too sure I'd want to do a lot of cutting with one. Damnit! There's always something...

P.S. Yes, I have been at this long enough to know there are always compromises at this price level, and I've read at myArmoury of historic blades ranging from 30-60 HRC, but still...Even Windlass supposedly uses a minimum of 1060 @ mid 40sHRC and up.

True, it should be fine for lighter stuff, which is 99% of what I'd be cutting anyway, but just the notion that I could use it to hack harder stuff would be comforting. I guess it's a matter of accepting the reality that it will be fine for my purposes, but will fall somewhat short of my mental "ideal" of what such a sword should be capable of (even if I'd never actually use any sword to its limits). Like I said, I realize there are trade-offs in the budget market, so I guess all things considered I can live with it. Also, it seems I'm unlikely to find a better example that both looks/feels decent and falls within my current budget.

Thanks, Hotspur. You have a way of putting things in perspective.

Welcome back, Freebooter! It's good to hear from you again.