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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Feb 25, 2015 16:49:32 GMT
I like the review myself. It was easy to watch and understand. I thought the tests were helpful and the presentation was good. Its clear that Donnie is happy with his purchase and did enough to show that it would not dull or break easily. Did you like my "dinger" shout out? That was for you! lol
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Feb 25, 2015 17:51:50 GMT
I like the review myself. It was easy to watch and understand. I thought the tests were helpful and the presentation was good. Its clear that Donnie is happy with his purchase and did enough to show that it would not dull or break easily. Did you like my "dinger" shout out? That was for you! lol LOL, I did notice that. I hope dinger cutting is never an actual test. Keep that one on the theoretical. Also just as a note, ryan sword has taken a good amount of criticism in the past. Its good to see a positive review and from someone willing to speak candidly about it.
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Feb 25, 2015 18:03:34 GMT
I try to do everything candidly. LOL
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Post by Curtis_Louis on Feb 25, 2015 19:10:20 GMT
Excellent review Donnie! I enjoyed your humor and willingness to put the sword through some well thought out testing. More importantly, it looks like you had fun with it and really enjoy your new Katana.
Thanks for your efforts. (Don't let your dinger dangle, dangle in the dirt. Pick up your dinger dangle, tuck it in your shirt).
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Feb 25, 2015 19:38:32 GMT
Excellent review Donnie! I enjoyed your humor and willingness to put the sword through some well thought out testing. More importantly, it looks like you had fun with it and really enjoy your new Katana. Thanks for your efforts. (Don't let your dinger dangle, dangle in the dirt. Pick up your dinger dangle, tuck it in your shirt). LMAO!!! I'm totally memorizing that little diddy. That is GOOD STUFF right there!!! LOL And thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it, and I look forward to doing more. :)
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Feb 25, 2015 19:42:24 GMT
Thank you, Josh! For the praise, for the explanation, and for the evaluation! I'm not sure what the names are, but the sides of the tsuka core are not relieved. Just the top and bottom. And after my testing, there are no cracks. While I completely agree about the cosmetic aspects you raise, I am confident that the tsuka is strong and should easily survive any reasonable use. The leather IS single ply, and I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing, but I enjoy the relatively slim profile of the wrapped tsuka. I'm not a fan of thicker profiles. I'm not sure if hishigami were used. I've never wrapped ito, so I'm not too inclined to disturb it unnecessarily. (because I'm not confident that I could fix it lol) I want to know now, though. I'll check tomorrow. Thanks again! For the sake of stability and also for aesthetic purposes, when samegawa is used as panels, as on most production swords, they should be set into channels carved on both sides of the tsuka core. I believe that on your tsuka the panels are just laid on the surface, adhered by thin sticky tape. Not having borders to keep the samegawa in place can lead to it shifting with use. It also shows the edges through the wrapping. I'm guessing that one reason they've thinned the sides of the throat (under the fuchi rim) to allow the samegawa to run under the fuchi is so they don't have to be as precise in sizing the panel. Possibly also to help hold it in place. One of the parts of the core that can take a lot of pressure is the throat, especially if the fuchi doesn't fit well or if the fit on the nakago isn't perfect, and removing material from this area isn't recommended. I've seen this done on other brands, including Ronin which you can see here Wood has been removed from the sides to allow the samegawa panels to fit underneath the fuchi. Some wind up very thin in this area which coupled with inferior wood, can lead to cracks later on. While full wraps of samegawa are considered the strongest way to apply the skins, panels are perfectly acceptable if done properly. Channels should be carved into the core so the panels are supported from the sides to keep them stable and so it sits flush with the rest of the core's surface avoiding any bulges or ridges. The panels should also be sized to run up to the fuchi and not underneath as to leave the throat fully intact and at it's strongest. You can see the cores below have channels carved for samegawa panels. Leather ito, including synthetic leather, fish skin, or snakeskin should be folded over at the edges forming a seem down the entire underside. Single ply ito isn't as strong and also shows the raw cut edges which isn't as aesthetically pleasing. Single ply leather has been used for gangi-maki styles but the exposed edge is usually rolled over. You can easily check for hishigami without damaging the wrap, just use a thin tool like tweezers to part the seem on any of the triangles to see if there is paper underneath. My concern with these issues is that these are very basic things and a seller like Ryansword, who has been around for quite some time now, should know better. Much of this is used to cut corners and save time and money but results in an inferior product. There are other reasons I wouldn't personally buy from Ryansword but at the very least, there are many who offer better quality workmanship and materials and there is nothing you can get from Ryan that you couldn't get elsewhere for the same price. These are just my own observations based on the particular sword in the review and I'm not on any "side" nor do I have any agenda regarding Ryansword or the OP. I hope some of this info is helpful -Josh
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 20:38:06 GMT
Thats an interesting post for example!
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Post by randomnobody on Feb 25, 2015 21:04:30 GMT
Indeed, great write-up, Josh. I never really pay any mind to those things (especially as I haven't bought a new sword in years) so I never think about how they affect tsuka longevity. Of course. as we all know, broken tsuka can be replaced, as long as nothing catastrophic happens to the rest of the blade, the average backyard cutter should get a pretty good service life out of even the worst tsuka. That said, it's still something production forges should strive to get right the first time. Too many are guilty to pin any one or two down, but I think if enough folk like you keep reminding folk like me that it's something to want, somebody will pick it up. Regardless of the sword itself, I had fun watching the review and Donnie was excellent in point out everything we'd need or want to know about. That's why I won't give him too much crap for buying a Ryan, and koshirae aside, it looks like the blade is actually pretty good (this time ) so there's that, at least.
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Feb 25, 2015 23:11:07 GMT
Please keep the discussion civil, and preferably about the sword and review themselves. Donnie put a lot of effort into making a good review, so lets not get the thread locked with squabbling and potshots. I allready appreciated that effort A LOT, and i still do...but i have the fear there could be 50+ positive reviews about a Ryansword and the special guy still would...oh, forget about it. Its useless...fighting stubborn windmills... You're passive aggressiveness is leaking again... On a side note, the "positive" reviews are generally from over-hyped, new sword owners. I'll go in to detail about that, later. I'll do a good write-up when I get home from work, tonight, about what I disagree with. Hopefully you take it as constructive criticism instead of a personal attack. Some of it has already been mentioned, but I'll go in depth.
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Feb 26, 2015 0:56:11 GMT
Thank you, Josh! For the praise, for the explanation, and for the evaluation! I'm not sure what the names are, but the sides of the tsuka core are not relieved. Just the top and bottom. And after my testing, there are no cracks. While I completely agree about the cosmetic aspects you raise, I am confident that the tsuka is strong and should easily survive any reasonable use. The leather IS single ply, and I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing, but I enjoy the relatively slim profile of the wrapped tsuka. I'm not a fan of thicker profiles. I'm not sure if hishigami were used. I've never wrapped ito, so I'm not too inclined to disturb it unnecessarily. (because I'm not confident that I could fix it lol) I want to know now, though. I'll check tomorrow. Thanks again! For the sake of stability and also for aesthetic purposes, when samegawa is used as panels, as on most production swords, they should be set into channels carved on both sides of the tsuka core. I believe that on your tsuka the panels are just laid on the surface, adhered by thin sticky tape. Not having borders to keep the samegawa in place can lead to it shifting with use. It also shows the edges through the wrapping. I'm guessing that one reason they've thinned the sides of the throat (under the fuchi rim) to allow the samegawa to run under the fuchi is so they don't have to be as precise in sizing the panel. Possibly also to help hold it in place. One of the parts of the core that can take a lot of pressure is the throat, especially if the fuchi doesn't fit well or if the fit on the nakago isn't perfect, and removing material from this area isn't recommended. I've seen this done on other brands, including Ronin which you can see here Wood has been removed from the sides to allow the samegawa panels to fit underneath the fuchi. Some wind up very thin in this area which coupled with inferior wood, can lead to cracks later on. While full wraps of samegawa are considered the strongest way to apply the skins, panels are perfectly acceptable if done properly. Channels should be carved into the core so the panels are supported from the sides to keep them stable and so it sits flush with the rest of the core's surface avoiding any bulges or ridges. The panels should also be sized to run up to the fuchi and not underneath as to leave the throat fully intact and at it's strongest. You can see the cores below have channels carved for samegawa panels. Leather ito, including synthetic leather, fish skin, or snakeskin should be folded over at the edges forming a seem down the entire underside. Single ply ito isn't as strong and also shows the raw cut edges which isn't as aesthetically pleasing. Single ply leather has been used for gangi-maki styles but the exposed edge is usually rolled over. You can easily check for hishigami without damaging the wrap, just use a thin tool like tweezers to part the seem on any of the triangles to see if there is paper underneath. My concern with these issues is that these are very basic things and a seller like Ryansword, who has been around for quite some time now, should know better. Much of this is used to cut corners and save time and money but results in an inferior product. There are other reasons I wouldn't personally buy from Ryansword but at the very least, there are many who offer better quality workmanship and materials and there is nothing you can get from Ryan that you couldn't get elsewhere for the same price. These are just my own observations based on the particular sword in the review and I'm not on any "side" nor do I have any agenda regarding Ryansword or the OP. I hope some of this info is helpful :) -Josh Like I said, the sides of my tsuka are NOT relieved. The panels lay flat against the sides, and the only relief at the throat is at the top and bottom. I checked, and hisigami were NOT used. I included a pic that was hard to get, due to how tightly the ito is wrapped. I had to pull as hard as I could with my fingernail to get this pic of the same beneath the ito. While the edge of the samegawa is definitely clearly visible under the wrap, I find this a forgivable cosmetic consequence of a $273 price tag. I would honestly rather NOT have any wood removed from my tsuka at all....let alone for cosmetic reasons. Sticky tape seems the more utilitarian option for keeping the samegawa in place....and I'm a utilitarian kind of guy. I honestly wish mine wasn't relieved on the top and bottom to fit the fuchi, as basic physics tells me that the more wood....the better. I do, however, now realize that the incorrect symmetry of my wrap HAS to be due to a lack of hishigami use, and that peeves me a bit as well. They couldn't cost 10 cents per katana in China, and the extra time saved by not using them has to be negligible....am I right? You would know. Still, for what I paid, I also find this forgivable. What do you expect for sub $300? I'm lucky to have leather at all!!! Which leads me to the single ply issue. I find it a non issue. It feels like leather, it's tight as could be, and I welcome exposed edges. I can't WAIT until the leather is old and used and lost it's finish. The fell of raw leather is heaven to me. I appreciate all of what you said, but even with the "ugliness" of panel edges and sticky tape as opposed to wood removal....I HARDLY find my sword inferior to nearly anything except in the area of cosmetic appeal....and I place little value upon that. I trust that sword with my life. If I am ever attacked by sword wielding ninjas...I have NO problem with grabbing that sword and defending my life with it. It is TOUGH AS (censored), and that is what is most important to me. Having said that, this sword turned out FAR more ornate than I had intended. I just like snakes, and this koshirae set appealed to me, but WOW is it....well..LOUD!!! And then with the polished habaki and seppa? I may have to send this to you at some point for the high quality, high cosmetic appeal treatment. I love it THAT much, and think THAT much of your work. :)
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Feb 26, 2015 1:05:49 GMT
I allready appreciated that effort A LOT, and i still do...but i have the fear there could be 50+ positive reviews about a Ryansword and the special guy still would...oh, forget about it. Its useless...fighting stubborn windmills... You're passive aggressiveness is leaking again... On a side note, the "positive" reviews are generally from over-hyped, new sword owners. I'll go in to detail about that, later. I'll do a good write-up when I get home from work, tonight, about what I disagree with. Hopefully you take it as constructive criticism instead of a personal attack. Some of it has already been mentioned, but I'll go in depth. I think you two need to get a room. You are CLEARLY in love!!! LOL <3
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 26, 2015 1:36:59 GMT
Excellent review Donnie! I enjoyed your humor and willingness to put the sword through some well thought out testing. More importantly, it looks like you had fun with it and really enjoy your new Katana. Thanks for your efforts. (Don't let your dinger dangle, dangle in the dirt. Pick up your dinger dangle, tuck it in your shirt). DINGLE dangle .... Left Left oh right left left right left keep it in step but dont let your dingle dangle dangle in the dirt pick up your dingle dangle put it in your shirt left left oh right left left right left keep it in step but dont let your dingle dangle dangle in the mud pick up your dingle dangle hand it to your bud left left oh right left left right left keep it in step but dont let your dingle dangle dangle in the snow pick up your dingle dangle tie it in a bow left left oh right left left right left keep it in step but dont let your dingle dangle to low pick up your dingle dangle and lets go left left oh right left left right left keep it in step
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Feb 26, 2015 1:55:33 GMT
Like I said, the sides of my tsuka are NOT relieved. The panels lay flat against the sides, and the only relief at the throat is at the top and bottom. Yes, I know, it's exactly what I've been saying As I said previously, channels carved into the core are not just for aesthetics, they are part of a functionally sound construction most of all. I checked, and hisigami were NOT used. I included a pic that was hard to get, due to how tightly the ito is wrapped. I had to pull as hard as I could with my fingernail to get this pic of the same beneath the ito. While the edge of the samegawa is definitely clearly visible under the wrap, I find this a forgivable cosmetic consequence of a $273 price tag. I understand that you are ok with some of the flaws and that's all fine and well since you are the one who bought it and the one who will use it. I don't agree however that one should expect this, or rather not expect more for the price as there are swords available without these particular shortcomings. I would honestly rather NOT have any wood removed from my tsuka at all....let alone for cosmetic reasons. Sticky tape seems the more utilitarian option for keeping the samegawa in place....and I'm a utilitarian kind of guy. I get it but again, just because someone likes something doesn't make it right or the best they could have or even in some cases, acceptable. As I mentioned already, there is more to the way these should be constructed than just aesthetics. The problem with just sticking it on with tape is that the sticky tape they use gets gooey with heat and use and in the heat of summer after a long cutting session, the panels tend to shift around. Believe me, most of my business is fixing these kinds of things They's be much better off just using some epoxy or even wood glue but the fly tape is cheaper and easier for them I guess. I honestly wish mine wasn't relieved on the top and bottom to fit the fuchi, as basic physics tells me that the more wood....the better. I do, however, now realize that the incorrect symmetry of my wrap HAS to be due to a lack of hishigami use, and that peeves me a bit as well. They couldn't cost 10 cents per katana in China, and the extra time saved by not using them has to be negligible....am I right? Absolutely. Most of the time we see something like this it's because the craftsmen don't know the proper way to do it but much of the time it's simply to cut corners and selling to those who aren't aware. Given the time Ryan has been in the industry would lead me to think in this case it's the latter.Besides using them for aesthtic purposes as you've correctly pointed out, hishigami are also used to raise the folds giving better grip and the paper molds to the shape of the samegawa nodes and helps to anchor the ito in place. Essentially, we're talking about differing levels of quality. While one wrap covers the core and might be adequate for a certain amount of time, another properly done wrap will feel better, last longer and look better as well. Still, for what I paid, I also find this forgivable. What do you expect for sub $300? I'm lucky to have leather at all!!! Which leads me to the single ply issue. I find it a non issue. It feels like leather, it's tight as could be, and I welcome exposed edges. I can't WAIT until the leather is old and used and lost it's finish. The fell of raw leather is heaven to me. I appreciate all of what you said, but even with the "ugliness" of panel edges and sticky tape as opposed to wood removal....I HARDLY find my sword inferior to nearly anything except in the area of cosmetic appeal....and I place little value upon that. I trust that sword with my life. If I am ever attacked by sword wielding ninjas...I have NO problem with grabbing that sword and defending my life with it. It is TOUGH AS (censored), and that is what is most important to me. I happen to know there is better quality and attention to detail to be had elsewhere so I personally have come to expect more for sub $300. Since there are so many sellers out there that don't cut as many corners and offer the same overall product, it just makes sense for me to buy from them and not sellers like this. When I first started out though, I bought a sword or two with similar flaws but as I learned more about how it should be done and who was selling what, I looked for more and better. To be honest, looking back I have a hard time believing that I could not see that the tsukamaki was all wrong on the first katana I purchased. I remember going back to the link over and over again before I purchased it thinking it was perfect and just like a nihonto and even comparing it to many other pictures of well made tsuka, I saw no errors at all. Now when I look at it, I feel a little embarrassed but hey, I just didn't know. Amusingly, the one thing that pushed me to pull the trigger was coming to this forum and seeing that company's link (they might have paid to advertise here or it might have been a google ad thing) and thinking that sbg was endorsing them, I figured that's it, it's got to be good, lol. Again, what concerns me is that all the little things are red flags pointing to the fact that Ryansword either doesn't know how to do things properly(after all this time) or that they know and are just selling to those that don't know better or don't care. Some people don't mind when they find out but others get upset and feel ripped off. Understandably. There is code members here use when they don't like someone's sword, it's "as long as you're happy, that's all that matters". On one hand, they are saying something else in reality but on the other hand, it is true. Many members here do try and look out for others and point out flaws honestly, as politely as we can, just trying to be helpful. For the most part, the issues with members fighting about Ryansword stem from just that, people trying to help out others. I'm sure there are things you are very knowledgeable about that others aren't and if one of your friends just bought or is thinking of buying something that you know is lesser quality, you'd try to help them out. That's all this really is Many years ago I showed one of my BudK $5 knives to one of my friends and they said oooohhhhh, that is so awesome and perfect, how did you make that? To them, it looked just like any other knife and there was no difference between this and a $2K custom one-off by a master smith. I gave it to him and he's probably thoroughly satisfied with it to this day. I of course told him what it was and he said, "whatever". True enough statement, lol
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Feb 26, 2015 1:55:55 GMT
Excellent review Donnie! I enjoyed your humor and willingness to put the sword through some well thought out testing. More importantly, it looks like you had fun with it and really enjoy your new Katana. Thanks for your efforts. (Don't let your dinger dangle, dangle in the dirt. Pick up your dinger dangle, tuck it in your shirt). DINGLE dangle .... Left Left oh right left left right left keep it in step but dont let your dingle dangle dangle in the dirt pick up your dingle dangle put it in your shirt left left oh right left left right left keep it in step but dont let your dingle dangle dangle in the mud pick up your dingle dangle hand it to your bud left left oh right left left right left keep it in step but dont let your dingle dangle dangle in the snow pick up your dingle dangle tie it in a bow left left oh right left left right left keep it in step but dont let your dingle dangle to low pick up your dingle dangle and lets go left left oh right left left right left keep it in step ROFLMAO!!!!!!!! That is AWESOME!!! How did I never learn that in the US Marines?
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Feb 26, 2015 2:06:35 GMT
Like I said, the sides of my tsuka are NOT relieved. The panels lay flat against the sides, and the only relief at the throat is at the top and bottom. Yes, I know, it's exactly what I've been saying :) As I said previously, channels carved into the core are not just for aesthetics, they are part of a functionally sound construction most of all. I checked, and hisigami were NOT used. I included a pic that was hard to get, due to how tightly the ito is wrapped. I had to pull as hard as I could with my fingernail to get this pic of the same beneath the ito. While the edge of the samegawa is definitely clearly visible under the wrap, I find this a forgivable cosmetic consequence of a $273 price tag. I understand that you are ok with some of the flaws and that's all fine and well since you are the one who bought it and the one who will use it. I don't agree however that one should expect this, or rather not expect more for the price as there are swords available without these particular shortcomings. I would honestly rather NOT have any wood removed from my tsuka at all....let alone for cosmetic reasons. Sticky tape seems the more utilitarian option for keeping the samegawa in place....and I'm a utilitarian kind of guy. I get it but again, just because someone likes something doesn't make it right or the best they could have or even in some cases, acceptable. As I mentioned already, there is more to the way these should be constructed than just aesthetics. I honestly wish mine wasn't relieved on the top and bottom to fit the fuchi, as basic physics tells me that the more wood....the better. I do, however, now realize that the incorrect symmetry of my wrap HAS to be due to a lack of hishigami use, and that peeves me a bit as well. They couldn't cost 10 cents per katana in China, and the extra time saved by not using them has to be negligible....am I right? Absolutely. Most of the time we see something like this it's because the craftsmen don't know the proper way to do it but much of the time it's simply to cut corners and selling to those who aren't aware. Given the time Ryan has been in the industry would lead me to think in this case it's the latter.Besides using them for aesthtic purposes as you've correctly pointed out, hishigami are also used to raise the folds giving better grip and the paper molds to the shape of the samegawa nodes and helps to anchor the ito in place. Essentially, we're talking about differing levels of quality. While one wrap covers the core and might be adequate for a certain amount of time, another properly done wrap will feel better, last longer and look better as well. Still, for what I paid, I also find this forgivable. What do you expect for sub $300? I'm lucky to have leather at all!!! Which leads me to the single ply issue. I find it a non issue. It feels like leather, it's tight as could be, and I welcome exposed edges. I can't WAIT until the leather is old and used and lost it's finish. The fell of raw leather is heaven to me. I appreciate all of what you said, but even with the "ugliness" of panel edges and sticky tape as opposed to wood removal....I HARDLY find my sword inferior to nearly anything except in the area of cosmetic appeal....and I place little value upon that. I trust that sword with my life. If I am ever attacked by sword wielding ninjas...I have NO problem with grabbing that sword and defending my life with it. It is TOUGH AS (censored), and that is what is most important to me. I happen to know there is better quality and attention to detail to be had elsewhere so I personally have come to expect more for sub $300. Since there are so many sellers out there that don't cut as many corners and offer the same overall product, it just makes sense for me to buy from them and not sellers like this. When I first started out though, I bought a sword or two with similar flaws but as I learned more about how it should be done and who was selling what, I looked for more and better. To be honest, looking back I have a hard time believing that I could not see that the tsukamaki was all wrong on the first katana I purchased. I remember going back to the link over and over again before I purchased it thinking it was perfect and just like a nihonto and even comparing it to many other pictures of well made tsuka, I saw no errors at all. Now when I look at it, I feel a little embarrassed but hey, I just didn't know. Amusingly, the one thing that pushed me to pull the trigger was coming to this forum and seeing that company's link (they might have paid to advertise here or it might have been a google ad thing) and thinking that sbg was endorsing them, I figured that's it, it's got to be good, lol. Again, what concerns me is that all the little things are red flags pointing to the fact that Ryansword either doesn't know how to do things properly(after all this time) or that they know and are just selling to those that don't know better or don't care. Some people don't mind when they find out but others get upset and feel ripped off. Understandably. There is code members here use when they don't like someone's sword, it's "as long as you're happy, that's all that matters". On one hand, they are saying something else in reality but on the other hand, it is true. Many members here do try and look out for others and point out flaws honestly, as politely as we can, just trying to be helpful. For the most part, the issues with members fighting about Ryansword stem from just that, people trying to help out others. I'm sure there are things you are very knowledgeable about that others aren't and if one of your friends just bought or is thinking of buying something that you know is lesser quality, you'd try to help them out. That's all this really is :) Many years ago I showed one of my BudK $5 knives to one of my friends and they said oooohhhhh, that is so awesome and perfect, how did you make that? To them, it looked just like any other knife and there was no difference between this and a $2K custom one-off by a master smith. I gave it to him and he's probably thoroughly satisfied with it to this day. I of course told him what it was and he said, "whatever". True enough statement, lol (Mod) Commented edited for inappropriate personal attack
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Feb 26, 2015 2:37:26 GMT
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Post by MadDogDonnieReed on Feb 26, 2015 3:08:08 GMT
I'm editing this comment for its use of inappropriate/attacking language and tone. Thread is now locked. -Adrian Jordan.
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