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Post by Cottontail Customs on Sept 10, 2015 19:42:49 GMT
I've looked at enough production swords over the years, including many ebay swords and I can say that while I might not be able to name the seller on every one, I can tell some easily from others at a glance. I agree that ordering from Huawei can be a real test of patience, I only do so if I have months to spare but there are several reasons I choose to put up with their cs shortcomings. While I have seen some other ebay swords that seem worth the price, I haven't seen any with as may desirable features as Huawei and none that I would personally buy unless I really had to. It's a shame that Jacky doesn't seem to get how disappointing poor communication can be.
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Post by danmasamori on Sept 10, 2015 20:57:29 GMT
I don't think I've ever gotten a St Nihonto blade with bad habaki fit, this seems to be one of their strong suits. In most cases they even allow for the mune-machi to sit a millameter or so inward from the edge, which keeps the mune of the blade from touching the saya when sheathed. You've had some purchases from Sheng in the past? Would you mind going into detail about the overall quality of his swords, not just the habaki? Ie, the steel sharpness/quality, saya fit, tsuka integrity/ito wrap? It would be much appreciated! ^_^ I've purchased 3 of his blades in the last 3 years, more purchases were made prior, but I'll stick with what's fresh in my mind. I purchased one L6 (when they were first introduced and two T-10 blades. Sharpness and geometry on all 3 were excellent, habaki fit as well. I've had no problems with either of the fore-mentioned with Sheng. The L6 which I'm sure is simply L6 steel and not bainite as Howard Clark ect utilizes, had a broken tsuka and the saya fit I am sorry to say was awful. The saya sori did not match the blade's, causing bad misalignment at the koiguchi, this is most likely due to the use of "one-size-fits-all" sayas. The ito was tight and properly alternating, however the ura & omote knots ended on the incorrect sides (I had the same issue with all three, a minor aesthetic issue but worth mentioning). The first T-10, an O-kissaki with bo-hi, had really no issues thankfully, tight properly alternating ito, intact tsuka, only issue which is minor is the saya finish, which was pretty spotty near the koiguchi/kojiri & kurigata. Lastly, which was recently acquired, a custom T-10. we had a communication error which resulted in me not getting what I wanted bladewise, but overall I am pretty impressed with the quality, exceptional geometry, probably one of the nicest bo-hi termination I've seen. The ito was alternating, tight and had very even diamonds, note I paid extra for hishigami, which I normally don't ask for as I usually have a rewrap or tsuka work in mind when making a lower end purchase, but wanted to see what the extra bit of money would get me. The saya was much nicer then what I'd received in the past, nice even finish and good koiguchi fit. I'd put St Nihonto right under Huawei on my list of quality ebay vendors....
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Sept 10, 2015 21:35:27 GMT
You've had some purchases from Sheng in the past? Would you mind going into detail about the overall quality of his swords, not just the habaki? Ie, the steel sharpness/quality, saya fit, tsuka integrity/ito wrap? It would be much appreciated! ^_^ I've purchased 3 of his blades in the last 3 years, more purchases were made prior, but I'll stick with what's fresh in my mind. I purchased one L6 (when they were first introduced and two T-10 blades. Sharpness and geometry on all 3 were excellent, habaki fit as well. I've had no problems with either of the fore-mentioned with Sheng. The L6 which I'm sure is simply L6 steel and not bainite as Howard Clark ect utilizes, had a broken tsuka and the saya fit I am sorry to say was awful. The saya sori did not match the blade's, causing bad misalignment at the koiguchi, this is most likely due to the use of "one-size-fits-all" sayas. The ito was tight and properly alternating, however the ura & omote knots ended on the incorrect sides (I had the same issue with all three, a minor aesthetic issue but worth mentioning). The first T-10, an O-kissaki with bo-hi, had really no issues thankfully, tight properly alternating ito, intact tsuka, only issue which is minor is the saya finish, which was pretty spotty near the koiguchi/kojiri & kurigata. Lastly, which was recently acquired, a custom T-10. we had a communication error which resulted in me not getting what I wanted bladewise, but overall I am pretty impressed with the quality, exceptional geometry, probably one of the nicest bo-hi termination I've seen. The ito was alternating, tight and had very even diamonds, note I paid extra for hishigami, which I normally don't ask for as I usually have a rewrap or tsuka work in mind when making a lower end purchase, but wanted to see what the extra bit of money would get me. The saya was much nicer then what I'd received in the past, nice even finish and good koiguchi fit. I'd put St Nihonto right under Huawei on my list of quality ebay vendors.... Thanks for the input, it's really appreciated. :) The only reason I went with Sheng over Huawei is because of Huawei's scarey track record with custom orders, and I didn't want to join that club. (Pardons to all the members of the not-arrived-from-Huawei club) And would the L6 blade you're referring to be this one here: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/39404/fs-st-nihonto-l6-katanaI actually saw that one a few days ago and toyed around with the idea of asking if it was still available, as it looked decent from the pictures. (Sorry it had a broken tsuka and poorly fitting saya, that's a shame, as it's koshirae actually seemed to be of decent quality otherwise.) And actually, it MIGHT be bainite, it could be my eye playing tricks on me, but looking at the hamon closely, I THINK I can see banding where bainite structures formed... or something... I'm not a goddam metallurgist, so I don't know what the f*ck I'm talking about. XD Comparatively, Hanwei's Oni L6 katana clearly shows the bainite structures, but I think the higher degree of polish in Sheng's blades might be obstructing it.
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Post by danmasamori on Sept 10, 2015 22:23:53 GMT
Yup, that's the one. I pulled it from sale after I found the cracked tsuka, you can ma ke out the offset in the koiguchi a bit in the pictures.
Anyways, I refitted it a new saya and did some habaki work, sent it to Aaron Justice for a new core.
You can see the refitted blade here
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Sept 10, 2015 22:54:06 GMT
Yup, that's the one. I pulled it from sale after I found the cracked tsuka, you can ma ke out the offset in the koiguchi a bit in the pictures.
Anyways, I refitted it a new saya and did some habaki work, sent it to Aaron Justice for a new core.
You can see the refitted blade here
Looks VERY nice - if I hadn't just bought a Hanwei Shinto katana, I'd be MIGHTY tempted to splurge on that katana there. :)
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Mikeeman
Member
Small Business Operator
Posts: 2,904
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Post by Mikeeman on Sept 10, 2015 23:07:45 GMT
I'll make a trade for that Shinto, if you're interested.
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Sept 10, 2015 23:12:42 GMT
I'll make a trade for that Shinto, if you're interested. ;) Well, it's going to be a few days before I get it, but I'm always open to offers, at the very least. (Before I would trade/sell it, I'd wanna get a feel for it so I can compare it to my custom L6 in progress once I get it.) Shoot me a PM if you're interested. :)
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Post by Kiyoshi on Sept 11, 2015 3:09:48 GMT
I've purchased 3 of his blades in the last 3 years, more purchases were made prior, but I'll stick with what's fresh in my mind. I purchased one L6 (when they were first introduced and two T-10 blades. Sharpness and geometry on all 3 were excellent, habaki fit as well. I've had no problems with either of the fore-mentioned with Sheng. I think this is probably his strongest point. The only complaint I have is that he can go a little thin on some kissaki. I think it is one of those things they have improved on since my previous sword had them on the proper side, but then again it, along with the one I am ordering, was of custom length. I actually haven't looked on the others yet. When it comes to saya fit, they don't make the saya. They have a saya maker from what he's told me, and he uses the one size fits all saya unless you use a custom blade length that won't fit, in which case it is custom made to your sword. That said, the fit could still be better. The koiguchi is not flush with the seppa, but instead has a probably 1mm space on he ha side. You can't see it unless you really look. Paint job is nice except for the rough boarder between the horn areas.
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Post by MessengerofDarkness on Sept 11, 2015 3:40:11 GMT
I've purchased 3 of his blades in the last 3 years, more purchases were made prior, but I'll stick with what's fresh in my mind. I purchased one L6 (when they were first introduced and two T-10 blades. Sharpness and geometry on all 3 were excellent, habaki fit as well. I've had no problems with either of the fore-mentioned with Sheng. I think this is probably his strongest point. The only complaint I have is that he can go a little thin on some kissaki. I think it is one of those things they have improved on since my previous sword had them on the proper side, but then again it, along with the one I am ordering, was of custom length. I actually haven't looked on the others yet. When it comes to saya fit, they don't make the saya. They have a saya maker from what he's told me, and he uses the one size fits all saya unless you use a custom blade length that won't fit, in which case it is custom made to your sword. That said, the fit could still be better. The koiguchi is not flush with the seppa, but instead has a probably 1mm space on he ha side. You can't see it unless you really look. Paint job is nice except for the rough boarder between the horn areas. That's correct, Cheng does have a saya maker that typically uses a one size fits all type approach, mainly to help keep costs down, I think - a completely custom saya for each blade would drive the price WAY up. That also made me glad that my custom katana from his has koshi zori - NO WAY will it fit in a standard says, so they'll have to make a custom one for it. ^_^
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Post by Kiyoshi on Sept 11, 2015 4:13:01 GMT
Yeah, I ask for blades longer than his usual so I normally wind up with a custom saya since there would be an inch or so sticking out if I didn't. lol That might be why the cost of getting a custom jumps on blades over 28 inches.
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Post by greatsaiyaman on Sept 11, 2015 5:08:08 GMT
I think this is probably his strongest point. The only complaint I have is that he can go a little thin on some kissaki. I think it is one of those things they have improved on since my previous sword had them on the proper side, but then again it, along with the one I am ordering, was of custom length. I actually haven't looked on the others yet. When it comes to saya fit, they don't make the saya. They have a saya maker from what he's told me, and he uses the one size fits all saya unless you use a custom blade length that won't fit, in which case it is custom made to your sword. That said, the fit could still be better. The koiguchi is not flush with the seppa, but instead has a probably 1mm space on he ha side. You can't see it unless you really look. Paint job is nice except for the rough boarder between the horn areas. That's correct, Cheng does have a saya maker that typically uses a one size fits all type approach, mainly to help keep costs down, I think - a completely custom saya for each blade would drive the price WAY up. That also made me glad that my custom katana from his has koshi zori - NO WAY will it fit in a standard says, so they'll have to make a custom one for it. ^_^ . A completly made custom saya costs peanuts and I get them done on all my orders.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Sept 11, 2015 5:16:34 GMT
Not a properly done one, unless you have some very expensive peanuts. A custom saya done by Fred Lohman used to cost around $80 costs a few hundred which is a pricey peanut. Even if it only drives the price up a little, that'll drive the cost up to you as the buyer more as you end up paying for breaking their usual routine. Edit: As Josh pointed out, $80 was just a charge for a non-black color. Actual price was a few hundred.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Sept 11, 2015 5:45:54 GMT
Not a properly done one, unless you have some very expensive peanuts. A custom saya done by Fred Lohman used to cost around $80 which is a pricey peanut. Even if it only drives the price up a little, that'll drive the cost up to you as the buyer more as you end up paying for breaking their usual routine. $80, when was this? His price for a plain black saya has been $650 for as long as I remember. Adding custom colors could be an extra $80 to $120 and other additional features range from $150 to $240. Properly made custom saya are a lot of work and could cost barrels of peanuts.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Sept 11, 2015 5:48:54 GMT
That's probably what I am remembering. It has been a while since i looked into it. I didn't feel like $80 was right. lol I know a well made saya can be pretty pricey. It is worth it too, you know it will be shaped to your blade, fit your habaki, and be finished with quality. I actually am weary of getting a custom saya because I know that with use the finish will get pretty scuffed up.
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Sept 11, 2015 6:09:09 GMT
Very worth it in my opinion. His prices are actually considered low compared to many others I've known. Wally does great work too but a lot don't invest this kind of money into their production swords, and understandably so.
Urushi lacquered saya are much tougher than one might think, especially if they're done traditionally and cured properly. It would take some decent abuse to really hurt them. Fred uses cashew lacquer which is more durable than your typical spray lacquer but not as much as urushi. It also doesn't polish to quite as high a luster. I use it often but I loathe doing so due to it's noxious vapors. I need to invest in a high quality respirator I suppose.
The best quality production saya imo are from Hanwei/Bugei. They use multiple layers of hard curing lacquer and higher quality horn parts and craftsmanship and sageo although many practitioners claim they are a bit overbuilt, bulky and heavy. I think it makes a better production saya this way but then again, I don't train. I have been very impressed with the construction and parts of the Huawei saya but their paint is thin and chips easily. The thin paint is a common issue among most ebay sellers as is loose blade fit and cheap sageo. A lot of the popular ebayers don't even use horn kurikata and leave off the kojiri altogether. They also usually use just a thin ring of horn for the koiguchi which could turn out to be a safety hazard down the road. Loose or tight koiguchi fit is probably the easiest of all prod kat issues to self remedy so I don't even consider this a problem. If you use your sword often, you'd have to adjust this at some point anyway.
What are some good saya you guys have seen or owned? And what about them did you like?
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Post by Kiyoshi on Sept 11, 2015 6:58:35 GMT
The best saya I've owned is easily my Japanese iaito saya. It is incredibly light but it feels very durable. I have no idea what it is made of, but it is a tozando if that helps. It is weird though, as it feels kinda... Thin? At least compared to other production swords. The only gripe I have is that I was young and got gloss instead of ishime. Over the years it is starting to flake and I tend to be nice to my swords, so I don't think they use any of the fancier lacquers you mentioned. It has lasted longer than any others. I've had it a few years and it still has a better paint job than my other production swords, aside from my hanwei which has a pretty good finish on it, but it is also the least used.
The best I have seen was on the only nihonto I've ever held in person. It had a really neat finish that I would call ishime because it actually was textured like a stone but most ishime saya I've seen aren't, but instead are matte with speckles. I don't know if it was a specific kind of ishime but I really liked it. It was thinner and solid like the iaito I own, but felt better in the hands.
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Post by greatsaiyaman on Sept 11, 2015 8:10:59 GMT
Not a properly done one, unless you have some very expensive peanuts. A custom saya done by Fred Lohman used to cost around $80 which is a pricey peanut. Even if it only drives the price up a little, that'll drive the cost up to you as the buyer more as you end up paying for breaking their usual routine. Edit: As Josh pointed out, $80 was just a charge for a non-black color. Actual price was a few hundred. $80 is peanuts lol. I'll ask Fred for 5 new ones now Longquan custom sayas are a bit cheaper than that when you get a custom blade. They do a pretty damn good job as well when you ask for the specs done how you want. That's why I will stick to them for sayas as I won't fork out $600 for a saya that is essentially basic woodworking skills that im too lazy to do lol.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Sept 11, 2015 8:20:42 GMT
I'm glad you're much richer than me. An $80 cost increase for some of us is a lot of money. Last time I checked you can get some peanuts at the store for under $2.
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Post by greatsaiyaman on Sept 11, 2015 8:50:29 GMT
I'm glad you're much richer than me. An $80 cost increase for some of us is a lot of money. Last time I checked you can get some peanuts at the store for under $2. $80 is cheap dude for a new custom made saya that you can get replaced if your current one gets damaged or worn out. I don't know how much cheaper you are expecting a saya to be made outside of china is going to be. Last time I checked it was about $650..
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Post by Kiyoshi on Sept 11, 2015 9:02:09 GMT
That was said in reference to calling it peanuts. I am not stating in any way that they should be cheaper and you shouldn't interpret as such. Calling an increase in price insignificant can come off as pretty snobbish, especially when some of us can barely afford what we already have. Not to mention I made a mistake, $80 is an added cost to the base cost, which was in my post. Yes, their saya are cheaper, by a large margin. However, I wouldn't say it is "basic" woodworking. There is a lot put into it.
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