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Post by atrixnet on Oct 3, 2014 14:03:21 GMT
Need to buy a bokken, but I'm not sure what I should buy in terms of what's available. Should I get a $12 dollar wood bokken or a $30 polpropylene bokken such as the one from Cold Steel. The polpropylene is extremely less likely to break, but I'd like some opinions please.
Making things more complicated is the fact that I need a bokken that is 43" long (total size)
Thank you, experts!
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Oct 3, 2014 14:52:24 GMT
Depends on what you're going to be using it for. If it's simply for forms or the like, a 12$ wood bokken will serve you just as well as the (somewhat) pricier Cold Steel offering and at a cheaper price. If it's for sparring, I would honestly say the Cold Steel bokken, simply because it's inexpensive and there's no chances of knots weakening its overall strength; my very first bokken was a 10$ one a friend of mine bought at a store in the local mall that turned out to have a huge knot in the wood about 1/3 of the way from the tip. It broke the first time we used it which, if it hadn't broken in such a spectacular fashion causing us to notice it immediately, could have been very dangerous.
A better quality wood bokken that's not from Who-knows-istan would be less likely to have that problem, as I assume they're inspected thoroughly for knots, but those tend to cost more than the Cold Steel bokken from what I've seen, so it becomes a question of which you'd prefer.
Either way, if you're looking for something to spar with, you're going to need a fair amount of protective gear; a fencing mask, sturdy padded gloves, and a padded jacket at the absolute least, though you'd be well served by adding a gorget, elbow & knee pads, and a protective cup to that.
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Oct 3, 2014 14:57:24 GMT
I prefer wood over propylene - I've held and used a Cold Steel bokken and it felt "plasticky" in my hands. It will last longer than a regular red oak bokken, but I personally don't like the feel nor the weight. There are different types of woods used for bokken, including oak (red and white varieties), lignum vitae, and other hard woods. It's generally preferable for yours to be made from a similar material as your dojo mates since you don't want to ruin theirs when doing kumitachi. There are many good stores out there selling really good bokken, but I highly recommend Kingfisher Woodworks www.kingfisherwoodworks.com
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Oct 3, 2014 23:58:41 GMT
43" is pretty long for a bokken. The Cold Steel o-bokken is 44", so you could cut that down to 43" (at either end, or both). It's about a quarter kilogram heavier than their regular bokken. Otherwise, you might need to go custom.
If you want 43" to match a particular steel sword in size, then the blade and hilt length will matter, too (if you use a guard, and maybe not if you don't).
If somebody else is making you buy a bokken, and says 43", ask them where to get one. They might be fussy about more than just the length.
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Post by grmnsplx on Oct 4, 2014 1:59:28 GMT
wood. something not painted or stained.
people hate it when you get their bokken all marked up from the paint, stain or material from contact. They don't care so much if it's a cheap bokken. If it breaks it's your problem.
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Post by Lobster Hunter on Oct 11, 2014 23:25:41 GMT
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Oct 12, 2014 0:25:16 GMT
So... True Story... I'm ranting at my daughter about her form. (wood bokken) We're going into overtime on the training, and I see her get *THATLOOK* in her eye.... No pads, was all slow work, and like lightning she threw and thank GOD her bokken broke, because she threw perfectly, and my head broke it.
She now has a polypro bokken, and I wear armor when we train.
So...what does this teach us?
As has been stated, if you use it for forms only, wood is awesome, but if you expect it to last forever and be made of unobtainium....poly pro is your tool.
My .02
PS: never underestimate a hormonal 16 year old girl..good lord.....
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Oct 12, 2014 0:50:12 GMT
I bet the poly would have hurt, how's the noggin :lol:
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Post by atrixnet on Oct 12, 2014 1:14:48 GMT
FWIW I can say with verified experience that the cold steel o-bokken smarts like louisville slugger. It's angular, which makes it worse if you get beaned at the right angle. I find it to be a good trainer because it's heavy and it's building up my strength already. It also has an exaggerated shinogi-zukuri geometry so it sings with tachikaze to reward you when you make good cuts. Bad cuts with improper form or grip just whiff. I am really enjoying this bokken.
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Post by Sir Thorfinn on Oct 12, 2014 2:14:08 GMT
It hurt. A lot. Darn near concluded me.
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Post by LiamPBoyle on Oct 16, 2014 1:30:51 GMT
Great goddess I just read this and realized that Sunday I'm going to be teaching longsword to a hormonal 14 year old girl - where's my full plate?
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slav
Senior Forumite
Posts: 818
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Post by slav on Oct 16, 2014 14:29:21 GMT
The Cold Steel bokken has too much flex. It's not good for form or sparring. But I imagine it's fine for self defense.
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Post by grmnsplx on Oct 16, 2014 19:05:25 GMT
Why do you need a 43 inch bokken?
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Post by atrixnet on Oct 16, 2014 19:22:57 GMT
You, sir, have insulted my bokken and therefore I must challenge you to single combat. Have at thee!
Before we begin however I do ask one favor, gentleman to gentleman: please don't kick my @$$ too soundly. Leave me with at least one limb =D
On a more serious note however I must respectfully disagree with you. I've sparred little bit with it and in sparring I notice no substantive difference with the exception that it doesn't make as loud of a cracking sound on impact as wood bokken. Maybe it's my a lack of experience, but I haven't had any problems and my friends have also used it and enjoyed doing so. No one made any comments on flex. Most of the complaints came from short guys who said the tsuka was to long. I told them it's an o-bokken--what do you expect? It's barely long enough for me. My only gripe is the grip. My hands grow too tired because there's little traction.
You're entitled to your opinion, but it's not in line with my experiences using it. For me to get it to flex, I have to stand on it and pry up with both arms. It immediately returns to true afterward.
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Post by atrixnet on Oct 16, 2014 19:30:57 GMT
The o-bokken is actually 44 inches, and I need it because my sword is 43. My sensei said my bokken must match the sword as closely as possible.
He also said the sword should match me as much as possible. I'm a little over 6'1" and 220 lbs. A typical sword feels like a toy to me. That's why I have a larger sword, and that's why I have a larger bokken.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Oct 16, 2014 21:00:36 GMT
The o-bokken is probably stiffer than their regular bokken. But I don't think the regular bokken is too flexy. Enough flex to be safer in sparring - less likely to break fingers than wood, safer on thrusts - but not floppy like, e.g., Rawlings poly swords.
Typical wood bokken are stiffer than steel swords (but the CS poly-ken is more flexy than steel, especially in the plane of the blade.
If you find the o-bokken finger-tiring to hold, it could be 3 things. As you suggest, the grip is not so grippy, so you might be gripping too hard because of that (I don't find this a problem with their regular bokken - yes, it isn't as grippy as it should be, but it's secure enough). The grip could also be too fat. Thirdly, you could just be squeezing the grip too hard. As a gripping exercise, try straightening the thumb and first two fingers, so only the last 2 fingers are wrapped around the grip. Your grip like this should be almost as secure. If you have to squeeze those last two fingers too hard because the grip is too slippery, roughen, groove, or wrap the grip. If the grip is too fat to hold with those last two fingers without tiring, thin the grip.
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Post by atrixnet on Oct 16, 2014 22:57:35 GMT
You raise a very good point. Grip /size/. To me the grip actually feels too small I'm going to look for a tutorial on how to wrap a tsuka, despite knowing my first attempts won't be pretty.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Oct 17, 2014 0:19:14 GMT
Unlikely to be too small, since it's unlikely to be thinner than the CS regular bokken grip. You should be able to comfortably grip something much thinner than a typical bokken or katana grip (down to, e.g., a 15mm round rod, if not even smaller). Too large will tire you quickly. Too large can also be too large to hold in the proper grip, so you'll end up with a straight-across-the-palm hammer grip instead of the traditional diagonal-across-the-palm grip. Which means your wrists will be in the wrong position, you'll keep your hands too close to you body, etc. But maybe it is too small. I don't know your hands. You can just wrap with cotton cord. (Something like cotton butcher's twine is good.) Put glue on the tsuka, and just wrap the cord around tightly. Make sure the ends are glued securely. Or use self-adhesive tennis racket grip tape. Warning: these will make the grip thicker. Thinner cord will do so less, but take more time to wrap. The problem with doing the common katana wrap is that the grip is more slippery than wood+rayskin, so the wrapping can tend to slip. A simple cord wrap is easier to glue than the common katana wrap (it's also a traditional wrap, "kami hira maki zuka".) www.sword-buyers-guide.com/tsukamaki.htmlGoogling "tsukamaki tutorial" will find more.
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Makoto Pat
Member
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Posts: 503
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Post by Makoto Pat on Oct 21, 2014 1:35:51 GMT
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Post by Joe Sonoma on May 11, 2017 17:35:34 GMT
I have 2 wood bokkens and my cold steel O Bokken is much heavier. It is also heavier than my real katana. If you are strength training I highly recommend the cold steel O Bokken. It is what I keep at arms reach when I sleep. I am also only 5 foot 5 inches tall and after a week of practice I found the O bokken to be my favorite. I believe in using the heaviest Bokken possible. Everything else feels easy to wield after you build up your core strength
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