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Post by jonatron5 on Feb 2, 2014 2:45:23 GMT
I have a ronninkatana and its very sharp and cuts very well but its not perfect? I would likemy blade to be able to cut through paper. I want it to be literally razorsharp like to the point where if you touch the edge it would trimm the hair off your arm. Quite frankly I have no idea what im doing wrong. I have a coarse grit stone and I tried to practice on a pockrt knife I wet the stone held the blade agaisnt it and pulled it acorrss the stone I did it for a while and to both sides of it. I worked up quite a bit of black residue on the blade. So I was moving metal but when I tested the blade I saw very very very little if any improvement in fact I think I might have even dulled it. Now the pocket knife is a stainless steel cheap little thing. And my stone is just a cheap 5$ from the hardware store. My sword is really nice its a 1060 highcarbon monosteel. And I really really dont want to take a stone or worse a grinder to it untill I know what im doing.
So does my error lie in my stone ?my pocket knife steel? My technique/experience? Or all of the above?
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hhmoore
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Post by hhmoore on Feb 2, 2014 3:57:32 GMT
All of the above; except the pocket knife steel. 1) Coarse grit stones are more for fixing overly dull or damaged blades, not for sharpening a decent edge. You probably didn't need it when you started; but you might to correct what you did. 2) Sharpening technique is different for a sword than for most pocket knives. 3) Sharpening blades is a skill that one must develop - relatively few people are good at it right from the start. There are numerous threads on how to sharpen - a quick search should get you well on your way.
Be careful about getting your sword blade "too sharp". There's a big difference between pocket knives and swords - swords are longer and heavier, and are swung with force...getting a sword blade too sharp makes it more likely that the edge will be damaged in use.
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Greg
Senior Forumite
Posts: 1,800
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Post by Greg on Feb 2, 2014 4:22:49 GMT
Indeed. The pocket knife is not the issue. It's actually possible to sharpen a block of lead to the point where it will shave hair, but it won't keep the edge for very long at all. If you are starting with a sword that can already cut well, but you just want to touch up the edge, you'll likely want 1000 grit sand paper or a specialized sharpening stone. Stones are fine for general edge geometry, and to get a blade sharp enough to "cut." But to get something sharp enough to shave with, you'll need a really high grit abrasive, like sandpaper or a leather strop. Check out this great tutorial by Tom: www.sword-buyers-guide.com/sharpen-a-sword.html
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Post by jonatron5 on Feb 2, 2014 11:21:49 GMT
Alrighty after a quick internet search I have found a 1000grit and 8000grit stone available for 80bucks. Thats a hell of alot of money for a rock basically. But I suppose if I want a high end edge im going to have to get a high end stone right? Im thinking my problem whas the stone honestly. I meen it looks soooooo simple just to sharpen a blade just hold the same angle and pass it over the stone.
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Post by chrisperoni on Feb 2, 2014 13:11:11 GMT
sand paper = $5 for a pack of four sheets. no more stones, stop thinking of using stones get 1000 or 2000 grit paper from an auto parts store. get some 3 in 1 oil from same store. read up. watch videos. read lots. watch lots. get a cheap sword and practice on it. don't use your good sword to learn from unless you just want to learn how to f**k up your good sword.
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hhmoore
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Post by hhmoore on Feb 2, 2014 14:02:36 GMT
Remember what I said about sharpening techniques being different for knives and swords? Just holding the same angle is fine for most pocket knives; but that isn't the way to sharpen a sword. And if sharpening was as simple as it looks, more people would be good at it...and there wouldn't be so many gadgets to help people do a better job.
When I suggested doing a quick search for sharpening techniques, I meant that you should search this forum. Most of it is geared toward sharpening swords; and that's what you want to learn, right?
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 2, 2014 20:56:56 GMT
Some recommendations - viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13285Start at part two half way down the page - Never use different compounds on the same slick-stick/strop - there are many different compounds you can use - Auto-sol polish comes in fine and very fine, mothers-mag (quick fix for marks) - car polish (grades vary) Polishing Compounds Stainless (Gray) – General purpose composition. Good cut & color. Restores the natural luster of ferrous metals. White Rouge (WR1) – Will not discolor.Can also be used on plastics. Removes scratches and produces a brilliant high-gloss finish. Jewelers Rouge (JR1)(Red) – Finest Common Abrasive.
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Post by jonatron5 on Feb 3, 2014 11:37:48 GMT
www.sword-buyers-guide.com/sharpen-swords.htmlWell the forum has its own sharpening guide Any practical advice?. I like the comment about not screwing up my good sword. So lets see.. if i were to get a cheap hardwarestore machete(the ones duller then butter) to practice on?or would that be way to much metal to have to move? I mean I really dont want to . Go out and buy another sword just so I can learn to sharpen my nice sword.
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Post by jonatron5 on Feb 3, 2014 11:49:41 GMT
Ok someone said to ditch the stones but every guide I see says to use stones. What levels of grit am I looking for to get a razor sharp blade? I was looking at the 1000-8000 grit combo.
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Post by chrisperoni on Feb 3, 2014 12:13:25 GMT
Your sword is already sharp enough and shaped correctly; you can skip the stones part. Watch these videos again: www.sword-buyers-guide.com/sharpen-a-sword.html-Notice Tom mentions in the 2nd video about 2min50sec in he only uses the rough side of the stone if he has serious reshaping to do.... you don't have that issue. Just before this he points out that the "fine" side of that stone he has is about 400 grit.... so you could just use 400 grit paper. Listen to the part in the first vid at about 1min50sec where Tom explains you can just use paper for bringing an already sharp sword to a very sharp edge. And yes, starting with a machete could work - the trick is that most machetes will have a pronounced secondary bevel, which is not like your katana. It's with this this pronounced 2ndary bevel that a rough stone might be more suitable than sandpaper. But have no fear! I have the cheaper alternative/answer. A file. A simple cross cut file will only be about $8 and can be used to reduce the bevel on a machete, then onto paper. So, for me I could go to Canadian Tire and for $10 buy 1000 grit and 2000 grit papers, for $8 buy a machete, for $3 buy 3in1 oil, and for $8 buy a file. Total investment about $30 and I'll have several items for my money, including another piece of sharp steel to play with. Fun! If you are in the States, O'Reilly's should have what you need.. except I'm not sure if they sell machete's there. Oh, just remembered this: -an update to Tom's hand sharpening vids.
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Post by okojo san on Feb 3, 2014 13:13:37 GMT
Why do you want shaving sharpness on a katana anyway? The novelty of it? Or do you really believe it needs to be that sharp?
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 3, 2014 20:15:48 GMT
Japanese sword polishers took a great deal of pride on the "sharpness" of their work, vis. " One Japanese sword made in 1662 is inscribed “Two persons completely cut into two pieces (one stroke),” a scholarly article informs us, and reportedly blades bearing five-body ratings can be found in Japanese museums."
We are all aware that a sharp blade cuts best and a blunt blade is likely to slip and cut YOU. So we keep our kitchen cutters in good order and our plane blades sharp.
All that being said the finer the blade angle the more fragile the edge and the more prone that edge is to chipping or bending, so this is why we have the Shibata or appleseed edge, by increasing the angle as we approach the edge we leave more metal and provide an edge that is both sharp and strong.
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Post by jonatron5 on Feb 4, 2014 14:01:09 GMT
Alrighty well looks like im going to the hardware store for some sand paper then. The swords fine it doesnt need filing or grinding orany geometry work. Infact its sharp enough to cut me if run my finger down the blade (with some pressure) but ive seen people with blades that can effortlessly glide through paper or shave hair off of peoples arms and thats what I want to have.
Now as far as thesand paper goes should I just lay it out flat and make some passes at a 30degree angle on both sides?
Or should I do as others have suggested and get a strop and hone the edge with that?
I like the idea of sandpaper better it sounds easier. But once again before I touch the swords im going to dig the old machete out and see if I can get that to the level I want before I screw up my nice blade.
Oh! I also was wondering wether or not those knife sharpining services hardware stores offer would work? I can just immagine the look on the guys face when I walk in with a sword lol!
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 4, 2014 20:08:52 GMT
You can make a slik-stick with any grade of paper you like - slik-stik notes here - viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13285since your sword is already sharp I would suggest you begin with 1200 grit wet-or-dry paper and a little lubricant such as 3-in-1 oil, you will need to go to at least 2000 grit for that "super sharp" edge your looking for - You can see here where the angle of the edge increases right at the cutting line -
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 4, 2014 20:10:25 GMT
Work slowly, have patience
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Post by jonatron5 on Feb 5, 2014 4:38:05 GMT
UPDATE.
Very glad I ACTUALLY whatched the video I was linked. I would have destroyed the edge the way I was thinking to do it. There is a very very small angle to hold the blade at. Loke barely above the table right?
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 5, 2014 18:16:31 GMT
Correct, if you use a little oil you can see where you are working, yes it is better to start with a cheap machete blade but remember you will need more work because the machete will be a straight bevel.
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Post by jonatron5 on Feb 7, 2014 13:17:20 GMT
Ok guys. Im insanely nervous about taking sandpaper to my nice sword. Ive whayched the videos several times got the machete ready and tomorrow ill do the practice if that goes well ill try the sword. Any last minute tips to alleviate my apprehension?
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 7, 2014 13:42:09 GMT
Start at the base of the blade and check your work as you go, work about an inch or so at a time, when you get confident you can sit and watch TV at the same time, have a good light behind you.
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Post by jonatron5 on Feb 8, 2014 0:12:16 GMT
alrighty guys went to the hardware store today and found the highest grit they had to offer was 400. So that's not gonna cut it. I got a cart on amazon.com right now filled with a 2000 grit 1000 grit 400 grit and 220 grit paper for 16$. should I go ahead and order those?
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