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Post by Robert in California on Jan 28, 2014 20:42:38 GMT
Hi Folks, I found this: www.ebay.com/itm/40-6-Handmade-J ... 564d14a6bd A high content Manganese blade? New to me. Where would a person choose a high content Manganese blade over a more conventional blade like 1095 or T10 or folded or spring steel? Is it more like a spring steel blade, since there does not appear to be a hamon? Thanks! RinC
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 28, 2014 20:47:57 GMT
It's a kind of Chinese description since they dun rely on accurate code of the steel, but in vague classification.
They're supposed to be tougher, less brittle. Supposed only. Steel sources in China are often corrupted and would sell you anything at any price they could, claiming that it's what you want.
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Post by Anders on Jan 28, 2014 21:09:22 GMT
According to wikipedia, manganese alloy steel is resistant to abrasions and has a very high impact strenght without being particularly brittle. The alloy is used in "the mining industry, cement mixers, rock crushers, railway switches and crossings, crawler treads for tractors and other high impact and abrasive environments." This seller claims this blade is "high silicon, high manganese" steel. If so, it may actually be something similar to the 9260 spring steel that Cheness uses, which is known for being extremely tough when properly heat treated. It doesn't really say anything about the exact composition, though, so it's a bit hard to tell exactly what you're dealing with. I have seen other Chinese-made Japanese swords described as being made of "manganese steel", usually the cheaper ones. No idea how they actually perform, though. As for the lack of hamon, that probably has more to do with the price range. Most low range katana are through-hardened monosteel blades and thus do not have a hamon. (Which doesn't necessarily make them inferior weapons, though some purists still want a hamon since it's a defining trait of the Japanese sword.)
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Post by LastGodslayer on Jan 29, 2014 0:50:48 GMT
Look up Hadfield Steel. Basically, the manganese content makes it super impact/abrasion resistant. They can't take a hamon because of the high manganese content. They should make decent blades, but to be honest I have never tested one...
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Post by Robert in California on Jan 29, 2014 2:28:51 GMT
Thank you!
BTW, LC: I admire you for your ability to live in Hong Kong. Though it is to San Francisco as San Francisco is to Detroit (Hong Kong makes San Francisco seem like a down and dirty dump by comparison), when I have visited Hong Kong, we stayed with relatives in one of those tall apartment buildings in town...I found it very hard to sleep at night. Hong Kong goes 24 hours a day and lacking air conditioning, we had to have the windows open...trucks rumbling, horns honking....give me the farm country any day....too many people, too crowded, not a good environment for a country guy from a farming family.
RinC
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Jan 29, 2014 4:15:42 GMT
Cue the "Green Acres" theme song: "Green acres is the place for me. Farm livin' is the life for me. Land spreadin' out so far and wide Keep Manhattan, just give me that countryside."
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SanMarc
Senior Forumite
Posts: 3,193
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Post by SanMarc on Jan 29, 2014 13:59:04 GMT
look closely at the Kissaki, it is showing a Boshi, it has a Homon...
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 29, 2014 14:47:10 GMT
Thanks. You know? I wear ear plugs and eye shield for sleep just because of the reasons you mentioned. Then, now you add the invaders from mainland China. We're totally ruined, violated and dead.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Jan 29, 2014 15:44:46 GMT
My thoughts - the bo-hi grind is a little uneven and the diamonds on the wrap are not even. You can see the grind lines here From Wiki Mangalloy is made by alloying steel, containing 0.8 to 1.25% carbon, with 11 to 15% manganese.[1] Mangalloy is a unique non-magnetic steel with extreme anti-wear properties. The material is very resistant to abrasion and will achieve up to three times its surface hardness during conditions of impact, without any increase in brittleness which is usually associated with hardness.[2] This allows mangalloy to retain its toughness. So that is high carbon + high manganese, more info here. ARE ITS WORK-HARDENING ABILITY, TOUGHNESS, AND DUCTILITY THE ONLY ADVANTAGES OF MANGANAL? No. It has a low coefficient of friction which is very important to wear resistance. This is particularly obvious in metal-to-metal applications. ^ Back to top 9. HOW DOES IT BEHAVE UNDER IMPACT WITH NO ABRASION? One example of surface work-hardening under almost pure impact is the liners of shot-blast cabinets. Manganal work-hardens rapidly, takes a smooth polish due to its low friction property, and yet retains its great toughness under the hardened surface. Generally, the heat-treated alloy and steels, although of high hardness, tend to erode comparatively fast, and break down on the surface. The use of high-manganese steel castings in certain railroad trackage is another example of impact with very little abrasion. 10. HOW DOES IT WORK WITH NO IMPACT BUT WITH COMPRESSIVE ABRASION? Here again it surface work-hardens, takes a mirror-like finish, and retains its original underneath toughness. An example is wear strips under conveyor chains. The compressive abrasion of metal-to-metal contact deforms the surface structure of Manganal and therefore, work-hardens it rapidly. The polish that it develops and its low coefficient of friction not only reduces the wear on the conveyor chain, but usually results in reduced power requirements for operating the equipment, because of reduced friction. 11. HOW ABOUT MANGANAL STEEL USED WHERE THERE IS BOTH IMPACT AND COMPRESSION ABRASION? The same qualities mentioned in 9 and 10 are developed. An example is quarry rock crushers. The high impact and grinding abrasion destroys most other steels rapidly. Manganal withstands the punishing abuse, without breaking or quickly eroding. Other typical uses are shovel buckets, teeth and loaders working in earth and stone where there is a general mixture of impact/compressive abrasion. 12. HOW DOES IT WORK IN VERY LIGHT ABRASION? Not so well. It may outwear mild steel a bit in sand or cinders but usually there is not enough surface deformation of Manganal steel to work-harden if very much. However, an exception would be sand or grit between moving steel parts, such as gears, conveyors, tractor rollers, etc. Here, the grit particles under pressure deform the surface of Manganal steel so the work-hardening and polishing takes place. 13. WHAT ABOUT CORROSION RESISTANCE? No better than ordinary steels. It rusts and is attacked by acids to about the same extent. 14. WHAT OTHER UNUSUAL PROPERTIES DOES MANGANAL STEEL HAVE? It is non-magnetic substantially. It is used for its nonmagnetic property in electrical transformer assemblies and for industrial lifting magnets. www.manganal.com/faq.html#question9
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Post by LastGodslayer on Jan 29, 2014 23:08:04 GMT
Actually, I can kinda see it too, but it shouldn't be there...
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Post by Robert in California on Jan 29, 2014 23:17:36 GMT
Thanks for the high manganese steel info!
LC, IMO the Brits screwed up by giving away HK. While they had the New Territories on a 100 year lease, they had old HK deeded to them permanently (like we had the Panama Canal...sigh...).
Flood of mainlanders? Sounds like you are describing California, where the "whites" are now a minority.
RinC
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