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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 10, 2013 19:34:03 GMT
Don't judge the sword on cutting just yet. I don't mean to throw out lame excuses but there are a few factors that played into the brief bottle video... aside from the beer. The blade is 25", its a little short for the grip I was using and I don't practice with a ko-katana. The blade size is a bit strange for me and I think I would have better luck using like a wakizashi. Figure 25" blade but no habaki puts it at the tip top of what I would use as a wakizashi.. Still katana length I understand but I'm a bit taller than the average guy those standards were made for. Also, the video had very little editing (for transparency sake) but there was also no practice.. No dry run and very little time getting used to the blade. Consider I am used to using a Bamboo Mat for everything and a random tanto for almost everything else.
Just saying some of the disappointment in cutting is because of that Matthew Jensen guy..
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 11, 2013 18:50:12 GMT
I gout out an old kitchen scale for measuring flour and such. It is as close as I could find. I don't know how accurate it is. I did measure my Hanwei Bamboo Mat (2lb 13oz) that is 1oz higher than Hanwei advertises. I am guessing it is reasonably close.
Angel Sword Weight: 1 lb 12.5 oz Motokasane: 6/16" Sakikasane: 5/16"
I got as close as I could with a tape measure.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 11, 2013 19:14:19 GMT
It does not feel tip heavy to me. It is one of the better balanced blades I have held. You should know I am used to my Bamboo Mat and prefer a blade that is a bit tip heavy. The POB is a little over 4" and even though the blade is shorter it is still closer to the tsuka than what you would usually find. To me it feels very agile and balanced.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 11, 2013 19:48:36 GMT
Moto-haba: 1 6/16" Saki-haba: 1"
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 11, 2013 20:22:23 GMT
So... I was being dumb..
its /32 not 16/
Blade/Nagasa Length: 25” (no habaki) Motokasane: 6/32" Sakikasane: 5/32" Moto-haba: 1 6/32" Saki-haba: 1" Handle/Tsuka Length: 11 ½” Overall Length: 36 ¾” Guard/Tsuba Width: 2 7/8” POB: (Point of Balance): 4 1/8” (from tsuba) Weight: 1 lb 12.5 oz
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 11, 2013 21:26:55 GMT
Sori: 13/16"
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 12, 2013 1:10:58 GMT
I am sure the edge would dull after repeated use. That is not bad or crazy. I think it is claims like never dulls, cant break, cuts through anything that tend to send the community here into an uproar. It will dull, it can break, and it cant cut through everything (especially in min hands). None of that makes Angel Sword less good, it just makes them real.
I like the sword for what it is. I don't want to say how much I paid but if you are good at eBay you can probably find out. Even if you don't find this one you can see what they go for.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 12, 2013 2:25:55 GMT
Maybe you are right. Still I think it is silly to think that they will NEVER break, dull, ect. It might be resistant but it can still break. Anyway, I just don't think it serves the argument right now. I think the blade will break/dull, but it does seem well made. I am just saying it does not need crazy claims to be good stuff. Still, heavy cutting and other tests and pending.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 12, 2013 15:53:05 GMT
I know this question was not for me but I feel like jumping in anyway. I own both of said blades and a few other customs as well. IF we are complaining the Bright Knight line from Angel Sword ($2400-$3000) then comparing it to an L6 blade is not exactly fair. An unmounted blade from Howard Clark is around the $4000 mark (unpolished, so about the same polish ) But mounting the blade is usually another chunk and so are the fittings. If you compare a mounted HK blade (at full retail).. $4k blade, $700 mount + basic fittings, $0 for polish. You are are talking about exceeding the price of the Angel Sword by about 50%. Still you can get a blade from Przemek (for example) for around $2000 (in a hybrid polish), and the mounting would be the same $700. Its a little more apples to apples. Anyway, (not having cut a lot with either) I like the basic geometry and blade of Przemek/clark/barrett/bolf (all the custom guys I have owned) more than the Angel Sword. Just in the geometry and "Art" I see in the blade. Still, I like the look of the Angel Swrod. I wonder what it would look like if I got it remounted and polished. That would be interesting.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 12, 2013 20:23:10 GMT
-- You can make jokes about me, my family, and my god... but you keep the sick jokes about steeling my sword to yourself! -- -- That is not a hard question to answer for me. No, I would not have paid retail. My personal idea of "value" and my intended uses would find the full retail cost prohibitive. Do not take that out of context though. I love my Bamboo Mat but I would not likely pay $1200 for it. I love my custom blades but I got all of them 2nd hand. I would have a hard time paying the full mounted price of $5k-$10k each. I liked the Oni, but I would never pay $2k for it. Out of the approximately 200 blades I have had in the last couple years, less than 10 were from an authorized re-seller or direct from the source. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I can see how folks would like them if cost does not bother you. I can see how folks would like them because they are unique. I can see how folks would like them because they admired them as a kid. I can see how folks would like them because they got a chance to hold a functional custom blade in person and had the chance to buy it. Imagine if Howard Clark or Rick Barrett had a booth at the renfest and you got to hold 20 different blades that were ready to go...lol you might have trouble finding one for 3k. (That is a sexy mental picture btw) Anyway, I think there are a lot of reasons that people would want out outside of falling prey to unsubstantiated claims or "snake oil" sales. That does not mean I like the hype but it does not bother me as much as some of the other folks. After writing this thread I have been contacted by more than a few Angel Sword owners who do not seem to have buyers remorse. They don't post because either they don't want to or don't want to take flak. I think we would hear more about them if people were less bold with their words. -- -- Very true when you consider the Bright Knight did not have a habaki. 25" is about the same when you consider the habaki is usually about an inch.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 12, 2013 22:16:37 GMT
You make a valid point. I've read the 20 pages of this thread. It only seems like we have one person who is adding flue to the fire so to speak. It would be easy enough not to engage.
To the communities credit, I appreciate the level of tact that most people are showing. Particularity the folks who have been most active. Most of the trolling so to speak has been respectful disputed. Most of the questions that have been asked are candid yet very on point. I think we have to acknowledge that many of us love to hate Angel Sword for various reasons and approaching them in a unbiased empirical and or logical way is difficult.Still, we are doing ok.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 12, 2013 23:38:31 GMT
--
From what I have read, that seems to be the case. I don't presume to know the details of said lawsuit or even the basics. I don't think the results of said lawsuit can be argued. It became the "love to hate" brad. There are lots of brands that don't get the same flack for some of the same marketing techniques. I think that lawsuit or the events surrounding was the catalyst "love to hate." At least that is what it seems based on the information I have read on various forums and such.
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No offence taken. I appreciate the kind words about the review and I respect your opinion. Thanks for contributing to the thread.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 14, 2013 13:45:47 GMT
It has been a fun 22 page ride so far. I am going to stir it up a bit more soon with some cutting tonight. I am doing some testing of another pair of swords today and while I have all the targets out I will probably give the Angel Sword something a little more hefty to try. I also want to make it out the the MN renfest for Angel Sword to do the bend test but work is being crazy. I should have time to make it out for one of the last weekends. Also, I very much appreciate the kind words thrown my way by the community and the karma . I might just have to start making a point of doing reviews on the redheaded step children so to speak.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 14, 2013 15:08:15 GMT
I will. It might need a little TLC. I am a little nervous about sharpening it though. It does not have a secondary bevel right now and I would rather avoid creating one with a quick sharpening. I would need to chat with them to understand what it would look like when it is done.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 15, 2013 21:36:43 GMT
My testing got rained out. I would appreciate it if folks would wait tell next weekend before continuing. I don't want it to get locked. I am planning on doing some cutting then. I might even have time earlier in the week. Also, I am planning on going to the MN renfest on Sunday. So if you value the post please hold of on posting tell I can get the tests done.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 23, 2013 2:13:26 GMT
Sorry for the delays folks. More Info: I went to the Ren Fest today and I got to have a long talk with Daniel Watson. For the folks that were asking for a bend test. Simple answer is, we did not do one. Daniel Watson said that the sword would likely take a permanent bend of some kind and that he did not have the tools at the ren fest to fix it. He was happy to try it but I took his word for it and opted not to hassle with it. He also noted that the polish on the blade had been modified by the previous owner. I looked over several other Bright Knight blades and while they all had similar construction to mine, the polish was more even. Still rough but not like it was done with a dremel. Daniel offered to fix it for free. He took the blade and sharpened it while I walked around the fair. When it was done Daniel Watson offered to test the katana. He did a demonstration with my blade on 4 rolled tatami mats. After he was done he let me cut it at the shop. I have the cut he did with my blade on video. docs.google.com/file/d/0B7Ws_1m ... htaDg/edit I know this is not the testing everyone was hoping for but I did not want to damage the blade. Danial Watson was willing to do it, and fix it but I opted not to. Daniel Watson also said he thought it would take a bend and was very honest. He also called his blades artistic interpretations. He said his stile is not for everyone but it was his intention to make them look the way they do. He is happy with the results as the artist. I can tell you from the tatami I cut the blade moved well. I am not used to the size or balance but still it moved with ease and cut a 4 tatami mat roll with little effort... very very little effort. I have cut a 3 mat roll with my Bamboo Mat before and it was a bit harder. The blade performed well, in fact it was one of the better cuts I have made. I wish I had it on video. While I was there, I got a chance to talk with Daniel Watson for a while. First off, I understand his personality might rub some folks the wrong way. That said, I found him to be a perfectly pleasant person. He did not try and sell me anything on crazy claims nor did I hear it from anyone in his shop. There were lots of blades being sold but I did not hear any crazy claims selling the swords. I was in his both for a good two or three hours. Also, Daniel Watson seemed transparent about what he thought his blades were good at. He said if you are looking for something more traditional you should probably buy from someone else. He said his blades are about performance. Daniel seemed like a guy that took a great deal of pride in his work and thought the info he provided about the resilience of his products was honest. I don't want to get into a battle over the claims but Daniel seemed honest and willing to give data to substantiate his claims. He said people should expect performance for what the blades cost and he was confident they could deliver. Anyway, I don't know enough about metallurgy to be able to debate the topic so I wont. Folks on the internet call BS, and Daniel Watson is confident it is not BS. (at least about resilience) I'm going to stop on that side of things because I don't understand it enough to debate. I have a vague understanding but I am not able to productively add to that side of the conversation. You guys can at least see it cut a big roll of tatami with relative ease. I have some notes on a few other things that came up in our conversion that came up in the thread. 1. How long do the blades take to make? Daniel Watson estimated that their were around 100 man hours in most of the blades. I don't know if that covers administration time or just time in the forging/treating/polishing/mounting ect. 2. If the heat treatment is so special, why not use it for industrial purposes? He said he does. He said that is a big part of his business. I hope this helps the conversation. I have to admit, I am happier with my purchase after going to the Angel Sword both at the ren fest. I thought I was treated with respect. Daniel Watson was receptive to my thoughts on this sword and some of this others. He sharpened my blade for free even thought I told him it was a second hand used blade. He gave me some tasty whiskey while we chatted. He was generous wit his time and knowledge. He did not dodge my questions and did his best to explain things to me candidly. He let me cut a big roll of tatami in the middle of his booth. And he offered to exchange the sword for something that fit me better if I wanted to upgrade. I can only speak from the experiences I have had and this one was very good. I even looked at a few L6 blades from Angel Sword and found some I like. I might think about doing a trade in at some point. I hope you all like the video. I will try and get more cutting done now that I have a different edge on it. I will also try and get a few more photos.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 23, 2013 3:47:18 GMT
I really took a lot of time at the booth this time. I looked at a lot of Japanese style swords. Most of the Bright Knight blades had a similar feel but I understand why now. I asked why no habaki. Daniel Watson said that a habaki can become loose after heavy use and begin to rattle. Customers that buy a Bright Knight prefer something more solid so that is what he tries to deliver.
I looked over other blades too. I found a few L6 blades that had better geometry and better polish. The most expensive Japanese style blade I looked at was $6000 Retail. The fittings were better and the tsukamaki was more traditional. All of the blades I held felt solid and light. On the more expensive blades there were some other random issues but overall I thought the selection was nice. I also got a chance to stop by Arms and Armor. Very different feel there. I got to see a lot of swords and had some good fun.
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Post by Matthew.Jensen on Sept 23, 2013 12:36:59 GMT
I agree I thought it was strange not to have a habaki. I did not like it because it makes iai (if you were to try it with this blade) uncomfortable. I did appreciate his honest answer though. I have cut a modest amount of heavy targets and I can agree with the concept of a rattle developing if the blade is misused or poorly maintained.
I liked that he had a method behind the madness. Many of the customers I was watching buy products did not fit the mold of a martial arts practitioner. Many were buying blades because they thought they were pretty, they liked the feel, they thought it went well with their costume, because their girlfriend liked it ect..I was not at the booth all day only two or three hours but I did not hear many questions about practical application or questions related to martial arts. While I was there I witnessed the sale of three swords and several knives. There might have been more because I was hanging out on one side of the booth.
If a majority population of customers are those that will not use a habaki for its intended purpose and furthermore prefer not to have one, then I can see why he does not include them. Angel Sword has blades that have a habaki but they are not in the Bright Knight series. The blades that had a habaki were not as well done as what you might expect. I pointed out a small issue in one habaki on one of the $6000 L6 blades. Daniel Watson said that I was right, it was a problem. He admitted that there are others artists out there that do a better job at the fittings/mounting. He also said that he would sell a bare blade if someone wanted to go that route.
The point of my rant was that he had a business reason that was tailored to his customers. From the customers I looked at in the store, I thought his answer made sense. Also, it brings up another good question I asked.
I asked why people done see Angel Sword at token kai events. He said he travels a good chunk of the year already. He said that many years ago he attended them but that he finds his time is better spent at ren-fairs because the sales are better.
I noticed that most of his work was not in Japanese style blades. He had many other swords and knives. I can see why that might be the case. He seemed to have his hands full at the ren-fair and business seemed to be bumpin.
I also asked what people at the booth make as sales people. Daniel Watson he said that he pays many folks in "steel credit" for working the weekend. It sounded like he paid a flat rate regardless of what the person sold. Understand that I know a few folks that work at the MN ren-fest and they all volunteer. The fact that he pays in product is not really bad considering he could find people to work for free. Anyway, I don't know if it was the same for everyone there but it gave me the impression that folks were not on commission so to speak. I could be wrong, I did not pry very deep into the subject.
I hope this is not coming off as Angel Sword fanboy-ism. I just feel good about my purchase and experience recently. Maybe Angel Sword is a different company than it was years ago maybe not. My experience was a positive one in what seems like an ocean of negative ones but there are a number of folks that just don't talk about it online.
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