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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2008 3:49:30 GMT
Apparently the cannon manned by the English at Crecy had quite an effect on the French armor though....firing grape shot as well as large arrows. Although interesting, the use of cannon vs. armour is irrelevant to the subject of this thread. Can we get back on track, please, gentlemen? Please note that I have edited my previous post that linked to an article by the Royal Armoury and have included a photo of the type of hardened steel point which they suggested may have been intended for use against heavy armour. Any comments on that idea, gentlemen? For myself, I suspect that though such points may have existed, I rather doubt they were around in sufficient numbers to have had much effect overall. Too expensive to produce in numbers. Thanks.
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Post by Jeff K. ( Jak) on Jan 27, 2008 18:18:58 GMT
Glacier, the profile of that arrow does look like it could be particularly effective against armor. The fact that it has been hardened suggests that indeed it was used to combat armor. I think though maybe, (since we can only speculate), arrows were made to take out lightly armored soldiers, and horses, but, why not harden them to increase the chances of penetration of plate at range. I am quite sure at closer range these arrows would indeed penetrate plate armor, but , really, hardening a batch of arrow heads at a time would not really add a lot of time to the process, and would be worth the extra time for increasing the possible lethality at range. For example, my fiberglass recurved bow has a draw weight of about 30-35 lbs, firing a bullet tipped (rather blunt) arrow at the quarter panel of my old car (about 18 guage on that car) at about 15-20 meters without any "arching", (straight tragectory) achieved moderate penetration, (arrow made a hole but bounced off). Now, quadruple the draw weight to match an english long bow at 120 lbs, you could safely assume you could quadruple the range for the same effect, 80meters, now add a heavier arrow, for additional punching power, a hardened somewhat narrow bladed arrow head i think it would be fairly effective. As you add "arch" for longer range the arrow loses forward momentum, but coming down, that rather heavy arrow will gain significant inertia as wel as whatever forward momentum is left....it would still pack quite a punch. Who knows really how effective it would be at maximum range, but, definitly a hardened arrow would stand a better chance at penetration than otherwise. On another note, concerning your fantasy novel, kudos to you for trying to put accuracy into it. Too many novels I read i laugh at for the ridiculous events that would never happen, not to mention poor terminology, when describing weaponry and such. For those who read these fantasy novels (myself included) it is god no to delude the readers with inaccurate info for the sake of excitement. Too many of the popular debates we al have stem from things seen in movies, or read in badly researched books ad taken for literal fact. I applaud you for conducting proper research and even asking what your felow forumites think.
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Post by rammstein on Jan 27, 2008 18:38:44 GMT
As has been said many times- it's a damn good thing armour isn't mad out of car doors, then.
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Post by Jeff K. ( Jak) on Jan 27, 2008 18:50:49 GMT
agreed, i forgot to factor in that in my mad rambling but it was there in thought, as I said, the panel was 18 guage where as plate armor would have been .5 - 1.5 mm thicker. Again, its all speculation untill someone does a definitive test. When my 14 guage cuirass arrives, I'm sure as hell not gonna try to punch an arrow through it! unless you pay me........ even so i wouldnt want to face a line of archers plate armor or not.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2008 1:24:36 GMT
.....When my 14 guage cuirass arrives, I'm sure as hell not gonna try to punch an arrow through it! unless you pay me........ even so i wouldnt want to face a line of archers plate armor or not. Awwwwww, that takes all the fun out of it! ;D On another note, concerning your fantasy novel, kudos to you for trying to put accuracy into it. Too many novels I read i laugh at for the ridiculous events that would never happen, not to mention poor terminology, when describing weaponry and such. For those who read these fantasy novels (myself included) it is god no to delude the readers with inaccurate info for the sake of excitement. Too many of the popular debates we al have stem from things seen in movies, or read in badly researched books ad taken for literal fact. I applaud you for conducting proper research and even asking what your felow forumites think. Both my wife and I have an aversion to dumb stuff in books and movies, i. e. movie armour that arrows and swords cut through like a hot knife through butter. Why even bother to wear that crap if it gives no protection??? Oh, wait....it LOOKS good! Aaargh. We will try to give a ring of authenticity to things and if we need armour-piercing arrowheads, we'll invent them! Hey, it's a fantasy! Who knows what those darned dwarves can cook up in their forges??? BUT, for the most part, we want things to be reasonably factual in matters concerning arms and armour while still allowing for a fantasy/magical element.
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