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Post by ShooterMike on Jan 4, 2008 20:52:36 GMT
That's not to say don't make them at all - but why do they ALL have to be this way? The only valid reason I can think of is "'Cause it's faster and cheaper to build 'em that way." It can certainly be a drawback to the functionality and durability IMO.
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Post by rammstein on Jan 4, 2008 20:54:59 GMT
Heh. I've got a feeling that some people who've just noticed this won't ever see a sword without thinking about fuller execution and termination ;D
Muhahaha! Even more people infected by the plague of historical accuracy.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jan 4, 2008 20:55:38 GMT
As long as there is distal taper, can't one simply control the angle of the fullers? They don't have to be parallel if depth as I drew them, but they could actually be reverse tapering in their thickness. If that makes any sense at all ;D. The drawback is that it takes longer to work with tapers on flat surfaces (the blade stock starts out flat) than to cut level channels (fullers) and just shape the blade at the end. So the resulting sword would be more expensive to make... like... an Albion!
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Post by rammstein on Jan 4, 2008 20:56:41 GMT
Ah, very good point, didn't notice that at all.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jan 4, 2008 20:57:01 GMT
Heh. I've got a feeling that some people who've just noticed this won't ever see a sword without thinking about fuller execution and termination ;D Muhahaha! Even more people infected by the plague of historical accuracy. YES!!! We will infect more of the population, my cohort in crime!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2008 21:39:21 GMT
My ATrim 1319 just arrived and it looks like the fullers originally terminated as Rammstein illustrates in the second "modern" example. However, they fuller terminations have been ground further to make the transition more smooth as depicted in Ramm's first illustration. I am not sure if this was done by a previous owner or by Gus himself, but to me it enhances the look of the blade.
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Post by YlliwCir on Jan 4, 2008 21:47:03 GMT
Congrats on the new sword, Jonathan. That transaction just caught my eye on SFI. Some pictures maybe?
Yes indeedy, Rammy and Mike, my view of fullers has been changed forever. Damn! All for the better.
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Post by rammstein on Jan 4, 2008 23:23:48 GMT
DI, Shootermike, and I tend to do that
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2008 23:37:39 GMT
It think if you are creating the fuller by hand it is just more natural (and lazy) to let it fade gradually. If I was carving wood by hand that is that I would do rather then go through any extra effort. With machine cutting it is more trouble to fade out the fuller. It is easier to just stop it the cutting and be done with it. I never thought about this before. I don't think it would effect my opinion of a sword purchase either way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2008 23:50:17 GMT
I think ShooterMike has nailed it on the head. I do not think "laziness" has anything to do with the fuller termination. In fact I would say that the reverse might be true. Fullers on production swords of the 19th century tend to look more like Ramm's Figure 1 than Figure 2. If Gus and Tinker have examined hundreds of examples and prefer the termination in Figure 2, then that is fine. I tend to not notice this on their swords. For me it is more noticeable on production swords that already look modern.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jan 5, 2008 2:04:41 GMT
Ok so we're talking about the tip end of the fuller. My question is why does everyone say the fuller should run under the cross, and not stop before the cross? I imagine it would reduce strength at the tang / blade junction where you want it.
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Post by rammstein on Jan 5, 2008 2:14:56 GMT
THAT, I have no clue about, however 99% of historical examples do that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2008 2:22:56 GMT
I think it looks better, but that's hardly the reason they did it. Hmmmm...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2008 2:32:03 GMT
On some examples fullers would extend quite far down the tang, in essence creating an I-beam shaped tang. I imagine it may have added to the structural integrity. Just speculating.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2008 2:34:55 GMT
I think that same issue came up in a thread about bohi (fullers) on a katana. The I beam comparison, I mean.
Dan over at Wild Wolf said that no matter how well they were made, they reduce strength. Removing steel doesn't make it stronger.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2008 2:44:00 GMT
Then I imagine that if the blade was well-made any compromise due to fullering was negligible.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2008 2:49:30 GMT
Yes I believe that's also true. Still, it doesn't explain why they would extend the fuller down through the tang. Unless they wanted to decrease weight down there. But why would you want to remove weight from the hilt? Usually it's the other way around.
Even if you did, surely there are much simpler ways of doing so.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2008 3:20:32 GMT
I don't think they would do it for their health--fullering takes work. I still think the answer is that it contributed to desirable handling characteristics or structural integrity. Here is XII.11 from Records of the Medieval Sword. It shows one method for fullering, and is certainly not representative of how it was always done, nor is it the exception:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2008 9:13:48 GMT
Ok so we're talking about the tip end of the fuller. My question is why does everyone say the fuller should run under the cross, and not stop before the cross? I imagine it would reduce strength at the tang / blade junction where you want it. That I have noticed and I don't like it. Aside from weaker tang, it allows oxygen in and rusting along the tang. I prefer a solid air-tight seal if possible.
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Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Jan 5, 2008 9:18:40 GMT
the fuller lightens the blade and is extended to maintain balance and allow condancation to ecape
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