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Post by oolong dao on Jan 12, 2013 17:24:48 GMT
If one were to go through the process to obtain one of the select fire AR15 from before 1986 would it be possible and legal to pair it with one of the modern uppers that outdo the old pooping were eating gas chambers?
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Jan 14, 2013 15:10:04 GMT
You need to pay the Automatic weapons tax while purchasing it from a licensed Class 3 dealer. Pricey, but otherwise not really difficult.
Yes, you can pair it with a new upper. It's not the upper that is tracked, taxed, or licensed. It's the receiver, wherein live all the parts that make it an automatic. Not sure how well it will match up, but it can be done.
That's Federal. Your state may have additional licensing or restrictions.
Consult with your local, Licensed Class 3 Dealer for the full information.
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Post by oolong dao on Jan 14, 2013 16:29:05 GMT
thank you
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Post by ShooterMike on Jan 14, 2013 17:03:14 GMT
If you go through the proper procedure to legally obtain a pre-1986 transferrable select-fire AR15 you can pretty much change out every part except the lower receiver. Only the lower receiver is considered a "firearm" and is the only registered part. However, If you plan on doing this, the best route is to add language on the Form 4 in the "h. Additional Description of Data Appearing on Firearm" field that states you will maintain additional upper(s) for this firearm.
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Post by Onimusha on Jan 14, 2013 18:47:15 GMT
You'll still need an m16 bolt carrier to make the select fire feature work. The carrier is what trips the auto sear.
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Post by KentsOkay on Jan 14, 2013 23:10:07 GMT
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Post by oolong dao on Jan 15, 2013 3:34:51 GMT
What i gather from that article is that the piece which makes the gun full auto capable outnumbers the amount of the rifle in the U.S. Know of any other reletively cheap alternatives?
Also didn't know how little the mechanism type mattered.
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Jan 15, 2013 12:28:54 GMT
Don't have a choice when in uniform, though. Which is where much of my experience with them comes from. I hate the blessed things with a passion. Gimme a good ol' M1 Garand in 30-06 or even an M1A1 in .308 Also perfectly acceptable. M14 I would still complain about, but I have had no serious issues using those, military or privately owned. ARs, though...
Well, if you have the ability and are willing to put in the time to do proper maintenance, it's fine. Especially in a better caliber like the 6.5 or 6.8 I still hate them, though.
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Post by KentsOkay on Jan 15, 2013 17:56:26 GMT
I just despise piston operated AR's as much as 9mm 1911's. Why? Because there's something slightly different, but even better because it was built to be that way to begin with, not some horrid in between thing (correct answer, in my book, to piston AR is Sig 500 series, SCAR, AK-74, Saiga in 5.56, etc. Correct answer to 1911 in 9mm is Browning High-Power).
Especially a little ways back (and even now), military practices concerning the AR aren't the best. I didn't realize there was really any difference between a M1A and a M14 (other than a giggle switch).
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Post by oolong dao on Jan 16, 2013 6:02:26 GMT
again, any other relatively cheap options?
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slav
Senior Forumite
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Post by slav on Jan 16, 2013 6:12:12 GMT
No.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Jan 16, 2013 23:38:36 GMT
The sear is a member of the trigger/fire control group. Basically it hooks the hammer when the gun is cocked till the trigger is pulled. Then the sear moves backwards ever so slightly to allow the hammer to fall and thus discharge the cartridge. In an auto sear the sear is designed as such that so long as the trigger is depressed the hammer will continue to fall after it has been cocked by the bolt control group - aka full auto. Now how true the claims of that link are I can't say. To my knowledge NFA weapons are restricted in manufacture within the USA. That means to me that converting one to a fully automatic weapon is illegal unless you file a Form 1 and register the RECEIVER as a select fire weapon. Auto sears and other parts are just that - parts. It is when they are put into a receiver that is capable of accepting those parts and thus becoming a select fire weapon that they are part of a firearm. Even then it is the RECEIVER and not a sear, trigger, hammer or any other part that makes the firearm considered a full auto. One good example is a short run of Norinco AK sporters that were imported during the 94-04 AWB. They had no flash suppressors (nor were the barrels threaded to accept one) and came in thumbhole stocks to circumvent the AWB. However some of these firearms had receivers that were originally manufactured for select fire and as such had 1 extra set of holes in the receiver for the pins to hold the select fire parts. Even though these holes were filled with rivets and no select fire parts were installed in the rifles (thus making them semi-autos) prior to being shipped to the US the BATF declared these weapons select fire weapons simply because the RECEIVER was originally manufactured to be a select fire weapon. The lack thereof or presence of the parts necessary to make it a select fire weapon didn't matter. As such ownership of these guns without the appropriate tax stamps was a felony. I wouldn't be too sure about the legalities of taking a firearm that was originally registered as a semi-auto rifle and installing select fire parts without the proper legal clearances. Besides to my knowledge you can't just install an auto-sear and turn a semi-auto into a select fire weapon. It takes more than that. Basically - don't believe everything you read on the web especially when its regarding full auto firearms. As for a less expensive alternative - there aren't any. Here's a link to a page with Class 3 AKs for sale: www.westernfirearms.com/wfc/ak47?sz=800x600Here's a link to the same website but with M16s: www.westernfirearms.com/wfc/m16A bit rich for my blood but well if you're rolling in the dough feel free to buy one.
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Post by oolong dao on Jan 17, 2013 8:52:09 GMT
Well, looks like time to just invest in a ruger 10/22.
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Taran
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Post by Taran on Jan 17, 2013 17:29:48 GMT
You Could do up an AR with a "Bump Stock." That's cheaper. It's also not really full auto nor is it as accurate, but it does work and give effectively the same performance, if you know what you're doing
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Post by Onimusha on Jan 25, 2013 16:51:32 GMT
Just don't get a TAC trigger, or any of those other trigger devices. They don't work.
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Sam H
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Post by Sam H on Jan 26, 2013 0:49:59 GMT
There was a guy on Armslist.com in WI selling an M16A1 with a brand new Adams Arms piston upper for $10.5k this morning. As I suspected though that listing disappeared rather quickly since if it REALLY was an M16A1 with a new upper anyone with that kind of money would have snatched it up ASAP. Granted even if the gun is paid for the paperwork for transfer of the weapon and tax stamp would take some time but well its no longer for sale.
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Post by oolong dao on Jan 29, 2013 7:32:23 GMT
this whole thing has only made me depressed.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Feb 19, 2013 12:44:52 GMT
The whole concept of "Look, my gun goes BURRRP" - sorry, big deal! - 1 aimed round is worth 100 if you just "spray and pray"
If your really after full-auto get a SAW, M27 or what have you, go to a full auto shoot, Knob creek, Oklahoma Full Auto or any other event, pay for some rounds and go for it.
Getting an AR to go full auto gives ammo to the anti-gunners.
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Post by Onimusha on Feb 19, 2013 17:18:11 GMT
I'd say it gives us ammo. We get to say,"look at all these machine guns that aren't killing anybody." If we start planning our steps around keeping them happy, they have won.
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Post by KentsOkay on Feb 20, 2013 0:42:29 GMT
Like all spirited debates, nether side will en masse concede to the other. Thus I would rather keep stuff "on the down low".
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