Kris Cutlery Korean Sword IIIB - 1st sword review
Dec 31, 2012 4:58:28 GMT
Post by Lord Cobol on Dec 31, 2012 4:58:28 GMT
Introduction / why this one as my first real sword:
1: It claims to be Korean, and Korea is my main area of sword-interest, with China 2nd.
2: It has a long handle -- this is a "must-have" for me. I need my 2-handed swing and I'm tired of trying to get a 2-hand grip on a 1-hand handle. And the handle is not round (edge-alignment concerns).
3: It has a fairly plain, simple look. I think many Chinese style swords are too fancy looking. Granted, the web site pics made it look like it would be more at home in an office hanging out with the laser pointers than going out for a drink with the other swords, but that wasn't nearly enough to drive me away.
4: KC's 5160 "made in the Philippines" seem to have a good reputation.
Why (almost) not this sword: I would have preferred a Jian, but I couldn't find sturdy ready-made one with a long oval handle and simple styling.
Historical Overview:
KC's description says "ancient", "long straight blade that was well developed by 700 A.D" and "considered a very old design". This is consistent with what little I know of Korean swords.
See the "Other Asian Swords" corner of these forums for my first source of info on Korean swords
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=6624
From links there I see examples straight swords with long handles, especially older swords. Many of them are single-edged like this one. Several of them have ring pommels, which I wish this one had. Newer swords tend to be curved, especially after the Mongol era.
My other source is Korean TV dramas. More on this at the end.
Disclosure & Purchasing:
KC web site listed it as "Reg. $265 SALE $225". Amazon listed it as $225, sold by & shipped from KC, with the extra info that there was only 1 in stock. I paid the $225 plus tax & shipping, thru thru Amazon since they already had my card info. No special relationship with either KC or Amazon.
Amazon's "only 1 left" must have been correct, because this sword disappeared from both web sites soon after I ordered. So if you like what I say about it, you're out of luck.
FWIW, it used to hide at the very bottom of KC's "other weapons" page, below the guitar knife. There has got to be a better place. Maybe they could rename the "Chinese Sword" page to "Chinese & Korean"?
Initial impressions & packaging:
Ordered it Tuesday afternoon Dec 18 and it arrived Friday afternoon. Not bad for Christmas rush time. UPS just left it on my patio and didn't even ring the doorbell -- a new low for them but not KC's fault. I normally avoid that kind of shipper sloppiness by having things shipped to work. The company is pretty good about that, but they have a no-weapons policy and I thought a long thin box from Swords-R-Us would be a bit much, so I timed my order so I could be at home waiting for it.
Came in a long, thin box, with bubble-wrap and some styrofoam to keep it in place. Everything was intact, but I'd rather have heavier packaging next time.
Looks nice, pretty much like the web site pics. Love the simple look and the light natural wood finish on the scabbard (scabbard & fittings are a lot like KC's katana 29a & dao IV).
No rattles when I shake the sword alone; predictable rattle when I shake it in the scabbard because it is a tight fit only against the collar.
No major issues with the fittings. Some rust and minor blemishes described below. The blemishes will probably be surpassed by normal wear & tear before long.
Customer service was perfect -- in the sense that I didn't have to contact them
Overall, good first impression.
Stats:
Blade is 5160 DH, 28 & 3/4 inches long from end of collar to tip. From handguard to tip is 29 & 3/4. Web site said 29 inches. It is sharp starting about 1 inch from the collar. The hamon is not very visible -- guess they didn't do anything fakey to enhance it. Profile seems to be what Wikipedia calls "flat grind" with a bit of convex at the edge -- if you look at the illustration at "en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grind" it seems a cross between #2 & #6.
Blade width: approx 28.5mm with little or no profile taper until the tip.
Blade thickness: slightly more than 7mm (9/32") just past the collar. Down to 4mm 2 inches from the tip. Web site said 3mm "at the tip".
Weight: web site says "2.2 lbs", not sure if they mean 2/10 or 2 oz. I measure it as 2 3/10 lbs; just under 2 lbs 5 oz. Anyway, the weight doesn't feel excessive to me, and I'm not especially strong.
Balance point: site said "5-6 inches from the guard". Seems like 5 to me.
Handle: the wood part is 10 inches. The pommel & ferrule are smooth bringing the grippable length up to 11".
Components:
Blade:
Came paper-cutting sharp. Nice bright polish. Fine except for one small rust spot near the tip, which somehow doesn't show in my photos. A few minutes with aluminum foil took care of that with no scratching. Since I got the last one I guess it might have been sitting on the shelf quite a while, so I can't get too excited. (It came oiled but did not have a lot of glop on it).
Here's the invisible rust
It does not make the nice "ting" sound that I get when I tap the blades of my cheap machetes. I guess that is a side-effect of DH -- the parts with different hardness want to vibrate at different frequencies and the result is no good vibe at all (?).
Handle:
It's oval; wood with black finish; one bamboo peg. Not slippery as I feared. The web site description said "The handle can be used as is or a wrapping material can be added later", which I think is modern marketing-speak for "better wrap it". But I'm ok with it as is. It is supposed to be removable, but I haven't tried it and as long as it doesn't rattle I don't plan to mess with it.
Guard: black. Iron according to the web site. Looks nice. The specs on the blade in the photo wiped off easily – these pics are “fresh from the box”.
Pommel: black, iron. Some minor blemishes.
Scabbard:
Light-colored wood with the grain visible. Nice. No scratches but the glue lines are visible, and there's a small dark spot, like maybe someone touched it with some black finish from the handle still on their finger. There was a little rust on the weld on the black iron thingy with the hanger, which I rubbed off and touched-up with a blueing pen. Then I waxed the whole scabbard with Johnson's Paste Wax, hoping it would help prevent future rust. There were some very small light spots where something had dinged the finish, but those are gone after I waxed it (the wax didn't otherwise change the appearance of the finish except to make it very slightly shinier).
(the bright spot below is a reflection, not a flaw)
Collar fits the scabbard well enough so I can hold it upside down and shake it a little without it falling out.
Handling: Seems ok to me, but I am totally unskilled & untrained, so that means nothing.
Test cutting:
It cuts paper and cardboard tubes better than my machetes. Haven't tried anything else yet. Minor scuff marks on the blade after about 50 tubes, and 2 very small nicks that don't show in my photos -- I'm nearsighted, so with the glasses off I can see closer than my camera can focus. Still no rattles. Overall I give it a B+ despite the nicks -- I knew going in that cutting cardboard was not recommended.
Conclusions:
Like it. Since it is sold out I hope KC will follow up with a "Korean Sword IIIc" or "IV". I'd like to see more swords with plain simple Asian-themed styling, 1-hand weight and 2-hand handles. I'd especially like a Jian like that. Don't much care whether it is DH or TH, folded or not. Wouldn't turn down a ring pommel if one turned up.
Pros:
+ Korean
+ simple appearance, not gaudy or over-decorated (might be a "con" if your tastes differ)
+ long (oval) handle
+ sharp
+ no rattles
Cons:
- minor blemishes
- rust
Bottom line: Recommended. Oh wait, its out of stock and recommending it will only drive you crazy. Still recommended
-----------
Swords in K-dramas: I'm not quite sure how much swords are chosen based on research and how much it depends on what the prop dept has handy, but at least the Koreans can read source materials in Korean and visit museums in Korea, so if they try they can research it better than I ever will. Anyway, there is a pretty good match between what they show and what I read in these forums and Wikipedia.
Here's a summary of swords in some shows that have aired recently, arranged by time period:
The Great Queen Seondeuk, on MBC, set in the 600s AD in Silla (south-east Korea): Generals & nobles have straight double-edge swords, jian with longer handles than most jian for sale now. Rank & file troops also have straight swords with long handles, but I couldn't see whether they were single or double-edged.
Dream of the Emperor, on KBS, set same time & place as Seondeuk, and featuring many of the same characters. Everything seems to be straight, single edged & long handle, like a “Han Dao” or “Tang Dao”. Once again couldn't see the common soldiers' blades very well, so can't be 100% sure they are single-edged like the leaders' swords are. Quite a few had ring pommels. The KC IIIb would be right at home except that it isn't as fancy looking.
Soldier, on MBC, set in the 1200s (Mongol invasion time). The generals had jian, and the opening credits show the lead character taking 2-handed swings with his. Common soldiers seem to have straight, single-edge, long-handle swords, often with ring pommels. Once again, not many clear shots of the rank & file blades, so its hard to be sure about them.
Faith. SBS. Set in the mid-1300s (end of Mongol era). The main characters had mostly curved, single edged swords -- from a distance these were about the same shape as a Katana, but the handles were different (from here down I'll say "katana-like" for anything that general shape regardless of handle wrap, handguard, etc). The queen's bodyguards had jian. Near the end the male lead needs a sword from his subordinates and gets a Han Jian (this is 1100+ years after the Han dynasty fell, so that seems off).
The Great Seer. SBS. End of Mongol era. Some generals have jian and some have katana-like swords. Common soldiers have straight blades, but once again I haven't had a good enough look to see if they are single or double edged.
Rooftop Prince. SBS, 1700s. Katana-like.
Doctor Jin. MBC, 1860s. Mostly katana-like. There was one scene with executioners carrying dadao.
So the K-drama swords come out pretty historical (except for the time-warped Han Jian). The switch from straight blades to curved takes place after the Mongol invasions, just like the non-fiction sources say. The tendency for leaders to have jian while common solders have single-edged swords fits with what I read about jian being harder to master than dao - generals should be experts and rate jian while the rank & file would have dao. K-dramas have lots more ring pommels and long handles than Chinese swords for sale now have (except dadao), but those handles & pommels show up in the photos of rusted Korean antiques, so maybe that's just how the Koreans liked to do it. For that matter, Chinese swords for sale now tend to have longer handles on the Han Jian (206BC - 220AD) & Tang Jian (618 - 907) than on swords based on later eras, so long-handles in Korea back in the straight-blade period fit in well.
The KC Korean Sword IIIb fits in nicely between 600 & 1300, at least in its handle length and blade type. The modern-office styling doesn't seem historical, but I like it.
1: It claims to be Korean, and Korea is my main area of sword-interest, with China 2nd.
2: It has a long handle -- this is a "must-have" for me. I need my 2-handed swing and I'm tired of trying to get a 2-hand grip on a 1-hand handle. And the handle is not round (edge-alignment concerns).
3: It has a fairly plain, simple look. I think many Chinese style swords are too fancy looking. Granted, the web site pics made it look like it would be more at home in an office hanging out with the laser pointers than going out for a drink with the other swords, but that wasn't nearly enough to drive me away.
4: KC's 5160 "made in the Philippines" seem to have a good reputation.
Why (almost) not this sword: I would have preferred a Jian, but I couldn't find sturdy ready-made one with a long oval handle and simple styling.
Historical Overview:
KC's description says "ancient", "long straight blade that was well developed by 700 A.D" and "considered a very old design". This is consistent with what little I know of Korean swords.
See the "Other Asian Swords" corner of these forums for my first source of info on Korean swords
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=6624
From links there I see examples straight swords with long handles, especially older swords. Many of them are single-edged like this one. Several of them have ring pommels, which I wish this one had. Newer swords tend to be curved, especially after the Mongol era.
My other source is Korean TV dramas. More on this at the end.
Disclosure & Purchasing:
KC web site listed it as "Reg. $265 SALE $225". Amazon listed it as $225, sold by & shipped from KC, with the extra info that there was only 1 in stock. I paid the $225 plus tax & shipping, thru thru Amazon since they already had my card info. No special relationship with either KC or Amazon.
Amazon's "only 1 left" must have been correct, because this sword disappeared from both web sites soon after I ordered. So if you like what I say about it, you're out of luck.
FWIW, it used to hide at the very bottom of KC's "other weapons" page, below the guitar knife. There has got to be a better place. Maybe they could rename the "Chinese Sword" page to "Chinese & Korean"?
Initial impressions & packaging:
Ordered it Tuesday afternoon Dec 18 and it arrived Friday afternoon. Not bad for Christmas rush time. UPS just left it on my patio and didn't even ring the doorbell -- a new low for them but not KC's fault. I normally avoid that kind of shipper sloppiness by having things shipped to work. The company is pretty good about that, but they have a no-weapons policy and I thought a long thin box from Swords-R-Us would be a bit much, so I timed my order so I could be at home waiting for it.
Came in a long, thin box, with bubble-wrap and some styrofoam to keep it in place. Everything was intact, but I'd rather have heavier packaging next time.
Looks nice, pretty much like the web site pics. Love the simple look and the light natural wood finish on the scabbard (scabbard & fittings are a lot like KC's katana 29a & dao IV).
No rattles when I shake the sword alone; predictable rattle when I shake it in the scabbard because it is a tight fit only against the collar.
No major issues with the fittings. Some rust and minor blemishes described below. The blemishes will probably be surpassed by normal wear & tear before long.
Customer service was perfect -- in the sense that I didn't have to contact them
Overall, good first impression.
Stats:
Blade is 5160 DH, 28 & 3/4 inches long from end of collar to tip. From handguard to tip is 29 & 3/4. Web site said 29 inches. It is sharp starting about 1 inch from the collar. The hamon is not very visible -- guess they didn't do anything fakey to enhance it. Profile seems to be what Wikipedia calls "flat grind" with a bit of convex at the edge -- if you look at the illustration at "en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grind" it seems a cross between #2 & #6.
Blade width: approx 28.5mm with little or no profile taper until the tip.
Blade thickness: slightly more than 7mm (9/32") just past the collar. Down to 4mm 2 inches from the tip. Web site said 3mm "at the tip".
Weight: web site says "2.2 lbs", not sure if they mean 2/10 or 2 oz. I measure it as 2 3/10 lbs; just under 2 lbs 5 oz. Anyway, the weight doesn't feel excessive to me, and I'm not especially strong.
Balance point: site said "5-6 inches from the guard". Seems like 5 to me.
Handle: the wood part is 10 inches. The pommel & ferrule are smooth bringing the grippable length up to 11".
Components:
Blade:
Came paper-cutting sharp. Nice bright polish. Fine except for one small rust spot near the tip, which somehow doesn't show in my photos. A few minutes with aluminum foil took care of that with no scratching. Since I got the last one I guess it might have been sitting on the shelf quite a while, so I can't get too excited. (It came oiled but did not have a lot of glop on it).
Here's the invisible rust
It does not make the nice "ting" sound that I get when I tap the blades of my cheap machetes. I guess that is a side-effect of DH -- the parts with different hardness want to vibrate at different frequencies and the result is no good vibe at all (?).
Handle:
It's oval; wood with black finish; one bamboo peg. Not slippery as I feared. The web site description said "The handle can be used as is or a wrapping material can be added later", which I think is modern marketing-speak for "better wrap it". But I'm ok with it as is. It is supposed to be removable, but I haven't tried it and as long as it doesn't rattle I don't plan to mess with it.
Guard: black. Iron according to the web site. Looks nice. The specs on the blade in the photo wiped off easily – these pics are “fresh from the box”.
Pommel: black, iron. Some minor blemishes.
Scabbard:
Light-colored wood with the grain visible. Nice. No scratches but the glue lines are visible, and there's a small dark spot, like maybe someone touched it with some black finish from the handle still on their finger. There was a little rust on the weld on the black iron thingy with the hanger, which I rubbed off and touched-up with a blueing pen. Then I waxed the whole scabbard with Johnson's Paste Wax, hoping it would help prevent future rust. There were some very small light spots where something had dinged the finish, but those are gone after I waxed it (the wax didn't otherwise change the appearance of the finish except to make it very slightly shinier).
(the bright spot below is a reflection, not a flaw)
Collar fits the scabbard well enough so I can hold it upside down and shake it a little without it falling out.
Handling: Seems ok to me, but I am totally unskilled & untrained, so that means nothing.
Test cutting:
It cuts paper and cardboard tubes better than my machetes. Haven't tried anything else yet. Minor scuff marks on the blade after about 50 tubes, and 2 very small nicks that don't show in my photos -- I'm nearsighted, so with the glasses off I can see closer than my camera can focus. Still no rattles. Overall I give it a B+ despite the nicks -- I knew going in that cutting cardboard was not recommended.
Conclusions:
Like it. Since it is sold out I hope KC will follow up with a "Korean Sword IIIc" or "IV". I'd like to see more swords with plain simple Asian-themed styling, 1-hand weight and 2-hand handles. I'd especially like a Jian like that. Don't much care whether it is DH or TH, folded or not. Wouldn't turn down a ring pommel if one turned up.
Pros:
+ Korean
+ simple appearance, not gaudy or over-decorated (might be a "con" if your tastes differ)
+ long (oval) handle
+ sharp
+ no rattles
Cons:
- minor blemishes
- rust
Bottom line: Recommended. Oh wait, its out of stock and recommending it will only drive you crazy. Still recommended
-----------
Swords in K-dramas: I'm not quite sure how much swords are chosen based on research and how much it depends on what the prop dept has handy, but at least the Koreans can read source materials in Korean and visit museums in Korea, so if they try they can research it better than I ever will. Anyway, there is a pretty good match between what they show and what I read in these forums and Wikipedia.
Here's a summary of swords in some shows that have aired recently, arranged by time period:
The Great Queen Seondeuk, on MBC, set in the 600s AD in Silla (south-east Korea): Generals & nobles have straight double-edge swords, jian with longer handles than most jian for sale now. Rank & file troops also have straight swords with long handles, but I couldn't see whether they were single or double-edged.
Dream of the Emperor, on KBS, set same time & place as Seondeuk, and featuring many of the same characters. Everything seems to be straight, single edged & long handle, like a “Han Dao” or “Tang Dao”. Once again couldn't see the common soldiers' blades very well, so can't be 100% sure they are single-edged like the leaders' swords are. Quite a few had ring pommels. The KC IIIb would be right at home except that it isn't as fancy looking.
Soldier, on MBC, set in the 1200s (Mongol invasion time). The generals had jian, and the opening credits show the lead character taking 2-handed swings with his. Common soldiers seem to have straight, single-edge, long-handle swords, often with ring pommels. Once again, not many clear shots of the rank & file blades, so its hard to be sure about them.
Faith. SBS. Set in the mid-1300s (end of Mongol era). The main characters had mostly curved, single edged swords -- from a distance these were about the same shape as a Katana, but the handles were different (from here down I'll say "katana-like" for anything that general shape regardless of handle wrap, handguard, etc). The queen's bodyguards had jian. Near the end the male lead needs a sword from his subordinates and gets a Han Jian (this is 1100+ years after the Han dynasty fell, so that seems off).
The Great Seer. SBS. End of Mongol era. Some generals have jian and some have katana-like swords. Common soldiers have straight blades, but once again I haven't had a good enough look to see if they are single or double edged.
Rooftop Prince. SBS, 1700s. Katana-like.
Doctor Jin. MBC, 1860s. Mostly katana-like. There was one scene with executioners carrying dadao.
So the K-drama swords come out pretty historical (except for the time-warped Han Jian). The switch from straight blades to curved takes place after the Mongol invasions, just like the non-fiction sources say. The tendency for leaders to have jian while common solders have single-edged swords fits with what I read about jian being harder to master than dao - generals should be experts and rate jian while the rank & file would have dao. K-dramas have lots more ring pommels and long handles than Chinese swords for sale now have (except dadao), but those handles & pommels show up in the photos of rusted Korean antiques, so maybe that's just how the Koreans liked to do it. For that matter, Chinese swords for sale now tend to have longer handles on the Han Jian (206BC - 220AD) & Tang Jian (618 - 907) than on swords based on later eras, so long-handles in Korea back in the straight-blade period fit in well.
The KC Korean Sword IIIb fits in nicely between 600 & 1300, at least in its handle length and blade type. The modern-office styling doesn't seem historical, but I like it.